1g balance shaft

the small belt drives the balance shaft correct? i thought that was the water pump at first glance, then i uncrossed my eyes & realized the water pump is driven by the serp. belt... BS belt broke, wedged between the tensioner and the timing belt, caused the timing belt to rip teeth off then break, the balance shaft turns kinda stiff, not like its locked up, just has some tension on it.i cant turn it by hand, i have to put a wrench on the nut.. does that seem normal or should it turn really free? i turned the oil pump with a drill and a socket, about 2500 RPM on the drill it came up to about 40-50Psi of oil pressure so i dont see any problem there, ive heard of removing the balance shaft whats all involved in that mess? could i just leave the belt off it and put it back together to get rid of the dead weight spinning?
ill figure it out as i go
i'm a really good mechanic on things i know, this is the first 1g DSM i think ive ever torn in to..i know a 420a like the back of my hand. just trying to learn a little about the 1g from someone that has been through them more

well whe you remove the balance shafts there is a kit that you need to buy so that you can block off the oil to the balance shafts and other things. when i was looking under the hood of my car because i heard a belt squeeling i took the top timing cover off and look what was ther. the balance shaft belt so i had to drive the car because it was the only thing that i had. it didnt affect anything really but to do it properly, you need a balance eliminator kit and they go for like 75 bucks or so

i didnt think it would hurt anything to just leave it without the belt, like i said in another post, the noises this oil pump makes when i turn it with a drill i might as well just get another motor, it sounds like theres marbles gettin ground up in it, and i noticed a little bit of aluminum shavings laying in the head, better either do it all or just get an engine, about the time i fix the topend on this the pump will quit & it'll lock up

id just get a new motor because it seems like that motor took a major POOP!!

yea theyre just expensive for a used one with too many miles on it, is a JDM worth having shipped over?, i can get my buddy that owns a repair shop to get one so its cheaper
i realized the oil pump is supposed to be timed with the crank,here i am crankin it with a drill, lol that could be why its makes so much noise
or not, i looked at a pump apart, mine sounds like theres no teeth left on the gears

BTW here's the balance shaft belt


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or could it be possible that the balance shaft belt has been broke, and the reason the timing belt tore all the teeth off was from the oil pump breaking a gear , i gotta take it apart now, ive never heard that much noise come from an oil pump thats just 2 gears, from what i see in picutres timing the pump doesnt make any difference.

timing the oil pump is needed, the other balance shaft is tied onto the oil pump. The B-shaft is bolted to the upper oil pump gear

I actually am in the middle of a balance shaft elimination on my G54B engine (Starion 2.6L turbo). I'm not sure about these engines but I know on my Conquest (Starion was the Mitsu model) there were refered to as "Silent Shafts" not balance shafts as they don't balance the crank but instead they help the pistons. He's right about the removal though. There is a kit you will need and it will have a piece that will go in where the BS sat and cover the oil supply port. Definately pull the pump and take a look at it. You should be able to tell if it's bad or not. Also you'll likely want to replace the oil pan gasket as you'll want to pull the pan to clean the oil pickup tube screen and clean out the pan of metal shavings that may be present. It likely will be cheaper to just do the repairs vice getting a new engine. I spent $300 in parts and here's what I'm doing: Balance Shaft elimination, timing chain, all chain guides, cam and crank gears, new oil pump, oil pan gasket, timing cover gaskets, valve cover gaskets. It's feasible if you want to do the work yourself. Have a shop do it and you'll pay out the arse.

i wont let any shop touch anything of mine, i do evrything myself, even alot of machine work
i just dont get why the balance shaft needs to spin double the speed of the crank, that things goin 14,000 if the engine is at 7, thats flyin, im surprised there isnt bearing failure issues there

I don't claim to be an engine designer just know what the cars parts do to an extent. I'm not sure exactly how things work on some of that stuff.

half the time i dont think the people who design the stuff know what it does..

JDM would be the EVO 1-3 and Galant VR4. They aren't worth the money to have a clip or just a motor shipped to your home. Stick with the USDSM motors and you'll be fine.
I don't think you've been asked this question...what are your plans with your car anyway? Daily driver, Street racer, 1/4 track, or autox/closed course type car? What are your goals with this, I think I remember that you said you were going to keep this car for awhile.
The balance shaft needs to be replaced with a nub shaft and then plug the hole with a freeze plug type..um, plug, if you decide to remove it completely.
This is what they look like..
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/balance-shafts.html



The link above the pics is from vFAQ and it goes into the reasoning behind the eliminator kit, another good reading link.

That's a little different from the kit that I had to use on my 'quest but yeah that's what it'll be for you. If you want a nice smooth ride then you'll want the shafts in. If you don't mind a little shake then you can remove them.

i have the kit siting in my room and its the exact same as whats silver posted.

Yeah like I said my engine is a G54B so my balance shafts are a bit different and MUCH easier to eliminate. I replace the oil pump sprocket, cam sprocket, chain, and 1 guide then I use the piece to block the oil port on the block and the one on the oil pump and I'm done.

im goin through the engine, the bottom end (besides the pistons) is in great shape, so im gonna ****can the balance shafts while im in there, i didnt realize at first there were 2 of them

removing the balance shaft is a hack way of repairing any mitsu engine.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manybrews

removing the balance shaft is a hack way of repairing any mitsu engine.

You're not repairing the motor by removing the BS. You're removing the BS to remove rotating mass, and a possible timing belt killer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: silvercoupe97

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manybrews

removing the balance shaft is a hack way of repairing any mitsu engine.

You're not repairing the motor by removing the BS. You're removing the BS to remove rotating mass, and a possible timing belt killer.

the rotating mass of the 2 balance shafts is about 3 pounds total. the only friction they provide is the intertia of their own weight (which is insignificant compared to any other object being spun by the engine, including the crankshaft itself).
also, the nonsense about it being a timing belt killer is unfound. the belts dont fail any more frequently than any other timing belt on the planet. If it fails, its due to neglect and no other reason.
mitsu has been using balance shafts since 71.. they innovated the technology, and it does not fail unless neglected.
you WONT gain 10 magical HP removing them; You MIGHT gain .5. And the massive increase in amplitude of the vibration (about 5 times) causes the engine to shake itself to pieces, not to mention making a once smooth car turn into a buzzing heap, similar to a Neon.

no, the balance shafts are good to have. So good that nearly every manufacturer on the planet uses them. Hell, even my yamaha motorcycle has one. It is brilliant, and does exactly what its suppost to do without any drawbacks whatsoever.
removing them serves no purpose, despite what people might think.

Who said anything about gaining any HP from removing the BS? The BS is obviously not needed as badly as you make it sound in your post. If it was and if it was a miracle shaft engineered by Mitsu, why is it a universally accepted process in the 4g63 community. Why don't you ever hear of owners motors falling apart? That BS is insignificant in my car and the removal was just as insignifcant. I feel a tad bit more vibration on the steering wheel and if I put my hand on the valve cover, I can feel the motor vibrate a tad bit more....not much more than what my buddies GS-T mind you.
That 3lb rotating mass serves no purpose other than to balance the motor in freq. It doesn't oil anything but it does slush oil around (makes me think of when my son takes a bath and he splashes around)...there's another variable that you didn't mention. That shaft is connected to a gear that is connected to a belt...ask yourself this, do you really need it? Neglect, I can buy that. What about the people who know better and don't neglect their cars? Are you telling me that I should leave my BS in? Too late, it's been without it for almost a year now and I still haven't had to retighten anything in or around the motor.
I understand your point of view, but don't tell us that, that shaft with lobes is only designed to help. I see one pro to having it and three cons. If I wanted a silent, smooth, comfortable car....I wouldn't have bought what I have now, I most certainly would have bought a Caddy.
If your only arguement for keeping the BS is so that the motor doesn't shake itself apart, then you need a caddy and stay away from DSMs. If you did this on your car and it felt uncomfortable, something happened, you either did it wrong or you had something else going on with your motor. If you haven't done this and you are only talking from riding in a car with one removed...there's just too many variables that's going on to assess that ALL DSMs are like the one you rode in.

The engineers also didn't engineer adjustable camber plates or similar, but yet whey you lower your car, you need them (brilliant Mitsubishi Engineers!). Mitsubishi Engineered the 7 bolt to fix the issues with the 6 bolt (brilliant Mitsubishi Engineers!), yet everyone goes back to the 6 bolt. You can keep your BS, I will leave mine out and so will the thousands of DSM owners that have done it.
Oh and don't compare our cars to Neons, compare us to an SRT-4, an EVO, a Suby, but not a 2.4L N/A car built to be economical.

its not a timing belt killer? then why did i find my BS belt tangled up in the timing belt, and all the teeth ripped off the belt and bent vavles? it killed it for sure... its definately not a "hack" way of doing anything, the balance shafts are there for the yuppie candy asses who want a smooth ride, i dont, i'd prefer to get rid of all the horse **** thats not nessecary in my car, you cant compare a DSM to a neon, i own one DSM and 2 neons, the neon is a pile of **** waste of space ****box car good for nothing but destroying on a dirt oval track for fun
theres the good old 420a


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RRE has been around for quite some time and have helped the DSM community and now the EVO community. They put a lot of R&D to their products. When they say something, folks in both communities listen.
Here's what I "heard" from them in regards to removing the BS...

quote:

Good:

* More HP to the wheels
* Zero chance the B-Belt will fail and kill the timing belt
* Zero chance the balance shaft bearings will fail and damage the rest of the motor
* More oil pressure to the rest of the motor

Bad:

* More vibration is felt in side the car (no more is made, just more is felt)
* Every car is different, some motors are more balanced than others. It is no worse that any other 2.0 liter car with out balance shafts

Then there's this bit of info that state the same thing that you said Manybrews and what I stated and to go with what Racer has found out.
Racer's issue is great example, not to mention that you didn't read his posts about his motor before speculating that the BS being a timing belt killer is "unfound".
Read up on this site to find out more before speaking about the BS in that "tone".
http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/answers-major.htm#removebalanceshafts

Here's another quote from 1000Q.

quote:

The balance shaft belt (known as timing belt B in dealership circles) has a much less important job than the main timing belt. It's function is to operate one of the balance shafts in the engine, a component that does nothing but smooth out the engine vibration. Balance shafts are not essential in an engine, and many engines don't have any at all.

http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/answers-maintenance.htm#whyarebeltsimportant

also now that ive got far into this engine, those godlike balance shafts you talk so well about, both of them the bearings are wpun or gone, the rear one has 1/4" of slop in all directions,- thats what trashed this motor, 1 less 1g 6 bolt now.. some great thing to keep there genious, so im just gonna get another motor and get rid of those worthless heaps of **** in it

quote:

ORIGINAL: racerx55

its not a timing belt killer? then why did i find my BS belt tangled up in the timing belt, and all the teeth ripped off the belt and bent vavles? it killed it for sure... its definately not a "hack" way of doing anything, the balance shafts are there for the yuppie candy asses who want a smooth ride, i dont, i'd prefer to get rid of all the horse **** thats not nessecary in my car, you cant compare a DSM to a neon, i own one DSM and 2 neons, the neon is a pile of **** waste of space ****box car good for nothing but destroying on a dirt oval track for fun
theres the good old 420a


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"yuppie candy asses"? I guess when I spend 20-30 grand on a new car, I dont want it to vibrate like a ****ty 30 year old Plymouth. If you tell me you do, you're being silly (or trying to impress someone with being a "tough guy").

and Ive already said if it fails it fails only due to neglect, and no other reason.

the technology only has benefits, which is why EVERY car maker on the planet uses them in some of their products.
I can tell standing next to a mitsu wether its had its balance shafts removed, and to me it signifies a butchering of what was a nice product.




incidently, what some people here dont know about balance shaft eliminator kits is that they can dramatically shorten the life of the oil pump. With only the stub shaft installed to hold the driven gear, the load placed on it is completely taken up by the aluminum housing as compared to just partially. The load is coming in at an angle, and Ive seen the aluminum housing actually wear itself out. Never before that have I seen an oil pump fail (or since) on a mitsu product.
just a bit of information for people to know. Im not saying your going to have a garateed oil pump failure... But im saying its more of a possibility.