Exhaust and the law

Wanted to update all on my dealings with the fix-it ticket my son got on his 97 Eclipse.  First this is Wisconsin, so things may be different in your state.  State trooper gave him a ticket for an "amplified muffler".  This is a 4" apex without a silencer.  In WI, the law says you cannot modify your exhaust to make it louder than the vehicle originally was (yea, tell that one to all the Harley riders)  How is that for vague.  Try finding the specs for what this car's decibel level was when new.
 
We called Apex and purchased their silencer.  With the silencer in, the car is much quieter.  Son takes the car to the local city police to get it checked off.  Officer takes one look and says No.  He says he has to replace the muffler with a factory unit.
 
Well, some things you just accept, others you have to fight just on principle.  I got on line and found that the City has a noise ordinance for light vehicles (cars fit this).  City ordinance is no car can be louder than 85 dB.   Then I found that there is a formal standard for measuring the noise of a car.  This is what the manufacturers use to check their cars. The test is the SAE J1169 stationary noise tests  http://www.airpowersystems.com/us_spec/subaru/exhausts/apswrx-hoe-r5/apswrx-hoe-r5.htm This web site gives information on the procedure.
 
I happen to be an industrial hygenist, so I have access to a sound level meter and am certified to use it.  We set up the car outside according to the specifications  and videotaped the process.  At 4500 RPM, the car is at 79 dB, that is less that the SAE standard and less than the City ordinance.
 
I plan on presenting the video and all the statistics to the police.  Since they never measured the noise level, if they say no, we go to court. 
 

Let them have it Catch!.....

Tear them a new asshole. I ****ing hate that authority bullshit

In some states it is just not leagal to run aftermarket exhausts.   Im Ma it is,  not that we follow.  Sebba you sound like a young idiot when you make comments like that,  If it is there state law then it is what it is.  its the luck of the draw when you decide not to follow.  same goes with window tint and cars ride height they are laws for reasons granted they could find something better to do but again it is what it is.
 
Id still agree to fight with them of course just see where you get,  however in doing so all it is going to do is put a red flag on your sons name and car.  They will harass him more I bet in the end because of it.  Just like when you fight car tickets often they are more likly to write you up,  in comparison to someone who pays them out ( police officers can tell from in there car weather you have fought in court in the past or not and they have the court dates there as well)
 
For example TheEngineer on here is a close friend he fights every ticket ever guess what he gets pulled over alot I guess youd say and get written up everytime,  I have been ticketed only twice and paid both.  I have been pulled over just last year like 10 times and no tickets and I was riding on a Ma state rejection for 11 months during this time and had a very illeagal car with illeagal tint ect ect ect.
 
One time the officer actually asked my about a court date for fighting a ticket and I was like huh??? I have never.  Well turns out it was actually my dads record he was looking at (he has the same name)  So we got a laugh but either way I guess you get my point maybe by now

I know how that sounded. To be entirely honest, i have yet to meet a cop i like. My uncle is a cop, and when he gets into cop mode, he is a dick.
 
I have a non legal related history related with cops, and a legal related history. Im more than justified to have a strong disslike towards them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sebba

I know how that sounded. To be entirely honest, i have yet to meet a cop i like. My uncle is a cop, and when he gets into cop mode, he is a dick.

I have a non legal related history related with cops, and a legal related history. Im more than justified to have a strong disslike towards them.

because your young that is all.   I find now the only people who hold a hatred to the police are people in the projects,  young ones, and people with a record.
 
as you get older you start to like them and respect them more.  I mean id rather have a cop roming around in my neighborhood than not.  as long as I can avoid the hassle.  of course no one wants to be hassled but the laws are the laws and some cops are dicks on a power trip.  What can you do.   I mean people outside of being cops people are still dicks.  I am a dick at work because I work in the projects doing cable.   as im sure you know in the projects the live off of wellfare and food stamps yet they have to have a huge 50 incher and HD with every channel.  those people piss me off.  plus they act like they own me and expect me do do everything.  I tell them flat out.  ill be a dick to them as son as someone down talks me or my job.  

My brother is 29 and hates cops. No record.
 
I agree with everything you said apart from the age stereotype.
 
I have yet to meet a cop that was not a dick on a powertrip. I give every cop the same benifit of the doubt.

Im with emonz on this one.  Some cops are dicks sure, but ive met alot of cool cops and i used to get pulled over all the damn time.  Out of the 12 or more times ive been pulled over ive only got a ticket 3 times.  And every time i got pulled over i was going at least 12 over.  Not to mention its easy to say you hate cops, but as soon as your in trouble gues who your going to call. 

I was at one time stopped for going 75 in a 50.  I was only 16 had my lisence for a month or two.  and it was 3 am which is illeagal to be out at the age in MA past midnight.  the cop said "hey man, do me a favor just slow it down and get home ok.... have a good night"
 
Not all cops are dick sebba.  that is your age.  there is no way when your older and have a fam and a house that you can say that because they will matter at that point and the job they do will matter.  I have been stopped by a few that I would love to pop in the jaw but no way in hell I can say all of them other wise my driving record would have like 40+ tickets on it.  I get stopped alot for random things but usually the po po shoots the **** with me.   Last year a state trooper actually stopped me and was asking about the mods and what the car runs and HP ect ect, and guess what I got away scott free when I was 1} speeding a little  2} had no front plate 3} had a 10 month old failed inspection (which is only legal for 14 days after issue date) 4} tint way to dark for state laws 5} no cat and loud ass exhaust  and the tropper made it known that he knew all of this stuff too.   So I guess what im getting at is would you call that tropper a dick?  esspecailly when he could have pulled my registration on the spot for the rejection being that old. and could have ticketed me for well over $400 in violations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Catch22!

Wanted to update all on my dealings with the fix-it ticket my son got on his 97 Eclipse.  First this is Wisconsin, so things may be different in your state.  State trooper gave him a ticket for an "amplified muffler".  This is a 4" apex without a silencer.  In WI, the law says you cannot modify your exhaust to make it louder than the vehicle originally was (yea, tell that one to all the Harley riders)  How is that for vague.  Try finding the specs for what this car's decibel level was when new.

We called Apex and purchased their silencer.  With the silencer in, the car is much quieter.  Son takes the car to the local city police to get it checked off.  Officer takes one look and says No.  He says he has to replace the muffler with a factory unit.

Well, some things you just accept, others you have to fight just on principle.  I got on line and found that the City has a noise ordinance for light vehicles (cars fit this).  City ordinance is no car can be louder than 85 dB.   Then I found that there is a formal standard for measuring the noise of a car.  This is what the manufacturers use to check their cars. The test is the SAE J1169 stationary noise tests  http://www.airpowersystems.com/us_spec/subaru/exhausts/apswrx-hoe-r5/apswrx-hoe-r5.htm This web site gives information on the procedure.

I happen to be an industrial hygenist, so I have access to a sound level meter and am certified to use it.  We set up the car outside according to the specifications  and videotaped the process.  At 4500 RPM, the car is at 79 dB, that is less that the SAE standard and less than the City ordinance.

I plan on presenting the video and all the statistics to the police.  Since they never measured the noise level, if they say no, we go to court. 

 
man id just go straight to court. my buddy got popped by a cop. he did this also. he took a copy of the law of desible readings to the judge n they let him off cause the cop didnt read the level.

on a little addon with what mike was talking about my tickets. I havnt been pulled over in over a year but when i was being pulled over it was usually late at night with cops that were checking for drunk drivers. All-in-all i really havnt gotten that many tickets. It hard to remember them but i think ive had only three. One which was the first i ever got a unsafe passing which i tried to fight and had it reduced by 50%. Then next two where for pulling out in the street at night where a cop was comming down the road faster than i anticipated. He had to slow down and pulled me over. The other was speeding 10mph over on a highway. Those two i fought and got out of. But other than that i cant think of any others that ive gotten. Ive probably been pulled over 5+ times other than these incidents though and never got a ticket. A couple times i got the whole "your exhaust is illegal and you need to change that" warning. But that was it

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheEngineer

on a little addon with what mike was talking about my tickets. I havnt been pulled over in over a year but when i was being pulled over it was usually late at night with cops that were checking for drunk drivers. All-in-all i really havnt gotten that many tickets. It hard to remember them but i think ive had only three. One which was the first i ever got a unsafe passing which i tried to fight and had it reduced by 50%. Then next two where for pulling out in the street at night where a cop was comming down the road faster than i anticipated. He had to slow down and pulled me over. The other was speeding 10mph over on a highway. Those two i fought and got out of. But other than that i cant think of any others that ive gotten. Ive probably been pulled over 5+ times other than these incidents though and never got a ticket. A couple times i got the whole "your exhaust is illegal and you need to change that" warning. But that was it

dont forget the time the cop saw your pillar pod gauges in lakeville.  and was like what is thin "nos".

haha yea that was funny

I have no issues at all with law enforcement. I actually work with them on a number of projects for the company I work for.  I significantly dislike it when laws are enforced at the whim of the officer.  There are few cars over 10 years old that do not have a aftermarket muffler on them.   How many Harley's you see (or hear) that have stock factory mufflers on them. 
 
My issue is laws have specifics that need to be understood and followed by both sides.  This is why we have Miranda rights.  Some may feel that these hinder the enforcement of laws.  I feel they are a check on the power we give to the law enforcers.
 
Emonz may be right. I may just make my son a target for local police.  I am hoping that my explination and my testing will show that I am not trying to piss off the officer, but just trying to comply with what the law says.
 
 My son had his neons on and he did have a loud muffler. We removed the lights and added a manufacturer approved sound reduction system.  If the car now meets the requirements of the State, that should be all there is to it.  Laws prohibiting modification of cars have probably been on the books since the first car laws were made.  I know I had my share of Fix-it tickes when I was a teenager in the late 60's.  That does not mean any driver should be harrassed for questioning authority. 

i have meet 1 cop in my life that i didnt like... the others were all extremely nice and actually good guys, dated the daughter of a cop as well and altho he was a lil intimidating at first i jsut talked to him and we ended up sharing partyin stories by the end of the nite...and im only 18

Im in WI and I always thought the DB law was 95db limit. A db test is normaly took at around 4000rpm a few feat away from the exhaust off to a angle. If you want one go to the DNR.
 
Also, how can they prove your car is over the db limit with no profe? Thats like them saying you where speeding when they had no radar gun.
 
Also I am very good at reading db limits by ear. 79 dB is very very quiet.  Eithor you tested it at idle or the test was done wrong. Most aftermarket mufflers with the inseart in it run at about 95dbs which is what the factorys do since 95dbs is what is saposed to be ligal

Blue
 
No dB settings in the State.  Some cities like Mad town (Madison) have city limits in dB, but the state law just says "

347.39(2) No person shall modify the exhaust system of any such motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor of such vehicle above that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle, and such original muffler shall comply with all the requirements of this section."

 
Testing was done absolutly by the ASE standards.  Been doing sound level testing for 30 years so pretty sure it is correct. 82 dB with the silencer at .5 meters at a 45 degree to the left of the muffler with the microphone at the level of the exhaust.  95 dB is what the ASE standard limit is for this test.
 
Test was done with a Gen Rad 1933 Octive Band Analyzer calibrated to a 100 dB calibration source.  Test was at 1000 Hz on the A scale with slow response.
 
The EPA also has a 80 dB standard for 20 feet.  Muffler comes out at 77 dB.  That happens to be what I found for a sound level that road and track listed for a 1995 GT. Article did not specify what standard that was done to.
 
Put in a call to the trooper that issued the citation.  He has not called me back yet, but I expect when I tell him what we did and the results, he will sign it off.  Can't see what he would have to use in court if he does not.

Thought I would give you all an update.  Took a number of weeks for the officer and I to finally get talking on the phone.  I go over all the sound readings and other information I have.  He says well, I still have to listen to it.  So I invite him over.  He looks at the muffler and says "that is not factory original".  I say, that is correct and neither is any muffler that you get at any one of the muffler shops in town.  So he says start it up.  I do and he says, nope, that is too loud.  I ask how he can tell, and he says well you can hear that it is.  He says listen to that rumble, that is way to loud.   I say, you are correct that the new muffler is operating at a different frequency, but also pull out my professional sound level meter and show him that it is at 77 decibels at 20 feet, just like the factory specifications.  I remind him that our law just says the muffler can not be any louder than the factory muffler.  He says "well, dispite what your meter says, it is too loud".  I then spend the next 15 minutes explaning to him the difference between frequency and sound level.  I say that our state law does not address the pitch (frequency) a muffler can make, just the sound level.  He still does not get it, so in my most polite voice I say, "well, it looks like we need to go to court"  He says "You would go to court over a muffler?"  I say yes.
 
Will keep you informed on if I get to educate the judge

yap, most likely the cop that gave the ticket drives a harley twice as loud