I changed the cams, replaced the timing belt, and now it wont start???

Ok, some of you may have read my earlier posts on some of my progress on my car, such as the replacement clutch, head gasket, timing belt, and Cams. Here's the problem, after changing everything out the car will turn over but will not start. Before I changed anything the car ran great, and I never had a problem starting it. I am 99% sure it is timing related, however I am wondering if there is a difference in Cam size for the 90-92 vs 93-94 4G63 engine. The problem is I'm not sure what year the engine is exactly, the guy before me had put a 6bolt swap in it and I have not had much luck contacting him lately. I do know I set the timing for a 90-92 but after looking at the Haynes manual it shows that the 93-94 years had almost a 90 degree timing difference, enough not to let the car start! So anyway my plan is to set the timing tomorrow morning to the 93-94 year and see if it makes a difference, and if it dooesn't the only thing I can think next would be the cams might be causing the problem and I will put the old ones in and see if it changes anything.

For the record, I do have spark, I do have compression, and I do have fuel, so the problem lies somewhere simple.

If you have any ideas as to other possible causes please share them, and again if you know if there may be a compatibilty issue with the cams in th engine year let me know. The cams I bought are 272 Brian Crower Cams.

Ok I just found this in my cams, so there is no problem with the cams not being compatible.
http://www.briancrower.com/makes/mitsubishi/4g63.shtml

And also if you read the paragraph on that page, it says that the 4G63 engine years 90-92 are 6bolts, and the 93-94 are a 7bolts. Well, I am now unsure if the timing is set incorrectly, so I'm just stumped right now. I am going to play with the timing a little bit and see if anything different happens, but again please shoot me with some ideas as to what could be the culprit in this situation. Thanks.

Make sure you have an injector pulse when you crank it.

We are getting fuel, spark, and pressure, but its just not wanting to turn over.  At this point I have removed the new 272 cams thinking they may be too big (not allowing the lifters to bleed down), so the old cams are in the car and its still turning over and backfiring...but not starting.  This is really pissing me off.  It seems like the new or old cams haven't made a difference in how it starts so I am running out of ideas.

In the first post you said it cranks but wont start and now you said it wont turn over?  Is the cps installed 180* b/c that will cause some crazy things.

I'm sorry I stated that wrong, It is turning over, and is wanting to start but won't. And the CPS is not out 180*.  Any other suggestions? 

Make sure the firing order is right and check to see if the injectors are firing.

Ok, I just used my DSM Link to relay the error codes the car is giving and the DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) I'm getting is 1300 - Ignition Timing Adjustment Circut Malfunction.  Ummm.... bad crank sensor possibly?   I hooked up a timing light and it seems to be firing intermintently, so I am thinking something is faulty.

This sucks so much, because the car ran great before all this happened, I guess I'm just thinking the coincidence is very unlikely, but possible I guess.

i feel ya, seems like something that works perfectly ALWAYS breaks or malfuctions when you take it off

When you timed it, was the number 1 cylinder at TDC?  You may have timed it on the wrong stroke of the pistons..   Take the number one spark plug out and turn the motor until you have that right at the top..  If your timing marks dont line up, then its not on the right stroke..

Thanks for the advice TheAdvocate, but we did have it set on top dead center on the first cylinder, and all the timing is also set correctly. 

Now, back to the error code I said I got, (1300 - Ignition Timing Adjustment Circut Malfunction) I called AutoZone thinking I would replace the Crank Sensor.....and well, that would be around $400 and they didn't have it in stock.   I don't really think the crank sensor is the problem and nor do I want to drop $400 unless I have to, so I tested the Power Transistor the way it said to in the Haynes manual, (You hook up a 1.5 volt battery to 2 different terminals and then check 2 other terminals with an ohmmeter, when they are connected you should have continuous continuity and when the positive lead to the battery is disconnected I you should have no continuity........... well I still have continuity.)  Now here's a question I have, what is the purpose of the Power Transistor exactly.  I am thinking that could be the problem because the guy I talked to at Auto Zone said that there was 4 possible causes for the error code I was getting:

1. Open or Short Circut Condition (I'm pretty sure this isn't the problem)
2. Poor Electrical Connection ( Again I doubt this is the issue, we have gone throught he car almost 4 times now, and everything looks good)
3. Failed Power Tranistor (This is a possibility)
4. Failed ECM (Again it's possible but I dont have a way to tell yet)
 
Another think to think about is that I hooked up a screwdriver the the spark plug boot and held it next to the chasis and I could visibly see spark when I tried to turn it over, however when I hooked up the timing gun it did not detect a fire every time it turned over, it seemed to be firing sporadically.  So I am just wanting an opinion as to what my next move should be, I found a power transistor here for about $130: http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?Ne=28&N=1676+4294967018+11326+4294965496.

Do you think I should try replacing the power transistor, or are there a few other things you think I should check?

Thanks for everyones help so far!

Could..  If you end up going back to thinking its the crank angle sensor, get a 1st gen cam angle sensor and bypass that crank sensor.  It would be cheaper to do that..  (If you have to)

i would, just to check, re-do the timing, it is very possible that just as you were putting a belt on it slipped... happened to me before

I have cranked the car a million times, and I have re-checked the timing and each time every mark lined up.  Anyway, ordered the power transistor from a guy off ebay, he's a power seller and gurantees the item to work or my money back, I bought it with shipping for a whole $36.  So we'll see what happens. 

And for those who say don't buy from ebay, heh, this is my 4th car I have bought off eBay 3 of them being DSM's.. so I don't think it's so bad, it is bad if your an idiot and try and buy a $300 "name brand part" for $10 from someone who has a quanity of 200, lol.

 

ya..  I bought 1 of mine from ebay..  And love it..  Only person that really gets anal about it is sebba   But then again he gets anal about a lot of things 

It's been awhile since I posted my progress on this situation, but the power transistor did not help any.  I am purchasing a 1st Gen GST from some woman my friend works with for about $325. I have it as spare parts for my current engine as well as a spare block to start building on. My plan is to take the cam angle sensor from that car and put it on mine to see if it will make any difference.  Let me know any other suggestions before I take the cam angle sensor and leave out to work on my car, which will be either later tonight or early tomorrow morning.  My car is like 3.5hrs away so I need to take whatever with me before I leave so I can try what I can while I'm there.  Please respond soon if you read this, thanks again for all your help everyone!

Again, just a brief rundown on the situation so far, the car had a few parts replaced....timing belt, starter, clutch, spark plugs, spark plug wires and also upgraded to a bigger set of cams.  Now after all the labor was finished the car will cough but not start.  after checking everything I definately have spark, fuel, and compression.  As for the timing all is set correctly...I have been down that road more than I want to admitt, lol. Now after hooking up a timing light I was able to see that when I turned the car over it fired but it was very inconsistent, meaning it wasn't firing every cycle like it should be. I have put the old set of cams in just to make sure it was in a state to which it was definately running before.  I have changed a small unit known as the Power Transistor which has a part in telling the engine when to fire along with the cam angle sensor; however replacing the transistor did not help, so I am now replacing the cam angle sensor.

I had this same issue but with a different motor and it was first the timing was 180 out the spark was hitting when valves were open not on compression stroke. second thing is i had spark issues because the coil pack was installed backwards by previous owner installed it that way so when wire were hooked up correctly as book shows it was backwards. After i fixed those 2 issue fired up no problem. just some thing you may want to look for. only way i knew it was out of time 180 is i was cranking it over with ignition off and a push starter and i could see it spark when valves were opening looking at the lifters.

Well just to throw something out. You said its a 6 bolt and your using dsmlink. Wouldn't you have to rewire the coil pack or change the order of the spark plug. Location of plug 1 and 4 are swapped with 2 and 3.

I had this happen when i swapped out my 98 ecu for a 95 dsmlink ecu. It would crank, back fire and not start. Till i remembered on the DSMlink faq that you had to do that if you were using the 95 ecu. So maybe when u put ur new spark plugs u put them back in the normal order.

It really sounds like the cam angle sensor is messing you up...   I had a problem with a talon not starting, having a lot of the same simtoms that you have, and it was b/c the people that had the car before us, put the cam angle sensor on, but never put the bolt thats in it, in...   We ended up getting a $150 talon when it was really something simple and easy to fix..

I think that may be the problem!!!!  It makes sense, I remember marking the spark plug wires and where they went with a paint pen, but when I was ready to put them back the paint had rubbed off, so I looked at the manual for the correct way to hook it up.  And it does crank, backfire, and not start....THANK YOU SO MUCH Nubiebubie_GSX!!!!!

I'm not for sure this is definately the problem, but I am Extremely confident it could be, cause it all makes sense!  I wish I could be there right now to test it out, I am so impatient right now, lol. Thanks again man, you have no idea how much of a help that has been.  I know for a fact the spark plugs are not hooked up correctly right now, so tomorrow I will let you know if your appreciated knowledge put another great DSM back on the road!

- Wi_Fibre

As for the cam angle sensor The_Advocate, I was sure that's what it had to be too, but until I heard about the spark plug wires being backwards it all makes sense now.  The reason I really don't think the cam angle sensor is bad is because I drove the car for about 3-4 months with NO problems at all.  So I don't see how a cam angle sensor would just magically go out at the same time I upgraded parts on my car, you know?  I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely.....but just to be safe I'm bringing the cam angle sensor with me tomorrow, lol.

The problem is fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was the spark plug order, like Nubiebubie_GSX had said, when you use DSMLink and a 95ecu the 4-1 wires are switched with the 2-3 wires.  I swapped the wires and the car fired right up.  The only downside is that I now know my coilpacks are going bad.  I still see intermittent firing, and one of the plugs aren't firing at all.  It makes sense though, because before I started all this I started noticing my car would sputter around 55mph+ but just a little, and the faster I got the worse it got.  But that was a sign of the coil packs going out I now know. 

Any suggestions on a good set of high performance coil packs?  I've heard of MSD ignition coils, but whatever I get I want it to be good.

if you want the best performance you want to go with a coil over plug set.