some help

hi i am not sure if this is in the right forum but i have a question:

i bought my rs 98 from 1 of my friends friends for about a thusand $ the prob with it is that it has 170k miles on it. so am wondering here would it be wise to put a brand new motor in it like swap the current 420a motor with a brand new 420a motor. also while i was thinkin that i was gonna put a turbo on the new engine, probably just a stock turbo that you see on a gs-t or a gsx. and also what are some things i can do to upgrade my hp before puting a new engine with a turbo. thx

well dont put a new engine into your car until your's blows up... and you dont have the same motor as a gsx or gst, those have a 4g63... so you cant turbo your 420a without a LOT of money and extensive fabrication, do a search about turboing a 420a

dont put a turbo on a 420 motor. not worth it. if u do buy a new motor, put a lil more money into it n get a 4g63 n put a turbo on it or find one with one on it. but ur still ganna have to mess with motor mounts, etc. under the hood

you just lost all of your talking priviledges... dude you cant put a 4g63 motor in an rs or gs, the motor mounts dont fit, and the engine bay will be about 4 inches smaller in a rs than a gsx or gst.  Keep your rs as a gas saver and a daily driver.  If you want more than that then you need to buy a gst or gsx

hmm but would it be worth the money to get a new 420a and turboing it up or does it look like a waste of money. i would of bought a gs-t or a gsx but in my area i was pretty lucky to even find a rs or a gs that are stick shift

yea i understand. no dont turbo the 420a. you'll spend an easy 5k to get your engine rebuilt (yes, this means you do not have to buy a new one, just rebuild your current one) and get all the stuff to turbo your car. And after all of that money your still gonna get a slow car that runs about 14 second 1/4 mile times...

hey sk8dudety since u seem to know alot about 2nd gen eclipses and 420a motors i wanted to ask u would this turbo kit be good if i decided to put a turbo on my eclispse. thx
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/420A-TALON-ECLIPSE-DSM-T3-CAST-TURBO-KIT-w-piping_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ011QQitemZ320167833730QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

hecks no! lol, no ebay motor or "performance" parts... if you were to get a turbo for your 420a this is what you'd want http://hahnracecraft.com/auto/eclipse/eclipse.htm

oh ic , but the stage 1 turbo does not include a intercooler so would i have to buy both stages or do i have to buy a seperate intercooler for the 1st stage. am sry am soo noob at this am jus startin to learn all this stuff. and how much would that kit cost. thx

I would think so, yea, check out howellautomotive.com, they have performance bottom end rebuild kits, ur turbokit, all fuel upgrades, etc.... but i'm tellin ya you're gonna wind up spending a TON of money to still have a slow car... I just got rid of my rs to get a gsx... you can ask rcj too, he did a similar thing... He built his motor and just stopped cause he realized he was spendin to much money on it and in the end it wouldnt have given him a very fast car

ic ic well for now i have no plans for doing anything with my car since engine has to many miles. and i will probably end up using this as a daily gas saver or wich ever until i can find a gsx around in my area for a decent price thx for ur help     

not a problem man, just glad that i could

here's a write up i JUST did and working on having it posted as a permanent:
_________________________________________________________________________________
This is being made for those hundreds of people out there that just bought their 95-99 Eclipse non turbo but had the stereotype label in your head that all eclipses are fast, or can be fast relatively easy.    This information, sadly, is not true. 
The second generation Eclipse came with the 420a engine, 2.0 liter, Dual OverHead Cam (DOHC), In-Line 4 cylinder engine N/A (naturally asperated = non turbo'd/non supercharged).    This engine comes with a base horsepower rating of 140hp from the factory.    This puts the engine between 105 and 120whp depending on the type of dynograph used.  This is also the engine used in certain years of the Dodge Neon and Dodge Avenger.
In a nutshell, this engine was built for reliability and long term use, not street performance and modifications.
I'll start by listing the mods that i had done to my Eclipse (performance wise) just to give you a good idea of how poorly these engines take performance mods:
99 Eclipse GS OZ Special Edition
-Thermal Research and Devopment Cat Back Exhaust
-OBX Racing high flow cat
-OBX Racing Header
-OBX Racing Intermediate Pipe
-AEM Cold Air Intake
-Port and Polished Throttle Body
-Greddy Grounding Kit
-EGR Blockoff Valve
-Cometic Head Gasket
-Venom 400 Performance Chip
-Stripped interior including Stereo system (nothing but driver seat)
Yellow Top Battery (relocated to trunk)
On a mustang Dynometer (the heartbreaker of all dyno's its called) i put down 111whp.    111WHP!!! how rediculous is that?
I added it up before i sold my car and found out that i had spent over $1500 on this car's performance to only gain... mabey 5whp.   To give you an idea of how fast/slow this car is on the street i would barely pull on 6 cyl Mustangs, keep right up with 6 cyl Cameros, walk Grand Ams, and a few hondas around here but other than that... that's just about it.   

HERE ARE YOUR CHOICES:
1.) Intake, Exhaust, and a few other nick nacks to make it go a little faster and leave it at that.

2.) Nitrous - i've only met one person that ran nitrous but he had a 50 shot set on it and said he put it on a Dynojet (very forgiving and very generous dyno) 162whp.   You can pick up a decent nitrous kit for $400-$1000 depending on how detailed you would want to get with the kit.   You will also need a wideband, tune, probably a new clutch, exhaust and intake to run the system safely and realize the full potential of the nitrous.

3.) Turbo - They make turbo kits for this engine but i will never recomend it.  Here is why: a good turbo kit for this car will run you between 2800 and 3800 bucks.  There are NO kits on the market that come with everything that you need.   In every kit you will need at least 1 or 2 more things.  Not to mention if you do add a turbo kit to your car you will only be able to run 8-10psi before the bottm end gives out.  Another thing that most people don't think about when buying a turbo kit for their car is all of the things that they will have to upgrade to make it reliable such as a clutch, wideband o2 sensor, tune etc.  
You can piece together your own turbo kit for less than the cost of a turbo kit from a company but you will stil end up spending at least 2000 in the process to, yet again, only run between 8 and 10 psi.
Here's a list of the absolute minimum to turbo this engine:
-exhaust/turbo manifold
-turbo
-wastegate
-o2 housing
-downpipe
-intercooler piping
-front mount intercooler
-blow off valve
This is the absolute minimum, to run the car safely you will need:
-wideband o2 sensor
-boost gauge
-boost controller
-tuning device
-tune
At this point you will be reaching the maximum limits of your bottom end of your engine and you cluch is toast so you now have to have a new clutch and if you want to run anything over 8-10 psi you'll need:
-forged pistons
-forged rods
-piston rings
-new main bearings
-new rod bearings
-head studs
-main studs
Now you are ready to run up to 18-20psi.   This is the maximum limits of your head so you won't be able to run over this.  Also, i have never spoken to anybody who had taken the time to build this far so i have no idea what the max PSI or HP the transmission can hold.
At this point we are at apx 4500-6000 depending on if you got the parts new, used, refab'd, from a friend, whatever.
At 20PSI on a rebuild bottom end with forged-turbo happy pistons with a good compression ratio you will be realizing between 280-350whp depending on the size turbo you have, compression ratio, street tune, dyno tune, tuning device... there are many fators.

HERE IS THE POINT OF EVERYTHING:
To get your 420a to realize 300-350whp you will have spent over 5000 dollars ON TOP of the cost of the car... lets say... 2000 dollars, so we are at apx 7000 dollars on the build.
You can get a 2nd generation GS-T eclipse between 3000-5000 these days.   If you find the right deal you can find these cars already with mods and a 6 bolt swap.    So lets say for simplicity reasons that you get a decent GS-T with an intake, exhaust, and manual boost controller for 5000.  You can put 1500-2000 dollars into this car and have a comfortable 350whp with the option to put a larger turbo on there and run betwen 400 and 500 whp  on the stock bottom end.

So, lets look at the facts.   You can have a maxed out head on top of a rebuilt bottom end with a turbo at 350whp and nowhere else to go IF you haven't blown your transmission yet.       OOOORRRRRR a comfortable 350whp with room to add much more hp on the stock engine.     Both for the same price.
_____________________________________________________________________
 
my suggestion would be to just drive the car while you have it, if anything just replace the head gasket, water pump, timing belt, tensioner and bearings.  after that LEAVE IT ALONE.    just drive it and save your money for a gst, gsx or another car.   if ur car is acting up and you need a new engine i'd suggest just rebuilding your curent one while doing the things i just mentioned.

thank you so much for writint that up and as u stated all the facts about the 420a enine and how much money i will have to invest just to get it to 300-350 whp compared to a gs-t or a gsx. am just gonna drive the 1 i have like it is and save up and get a gsx . thx again 

no problem.  glad that it helped

i dont even think you could get 350hp out of a 420a, can the block even hold that?

if its rebuilt, as stated.  i think normal forged internals are good up to 900

i mean the block itself, i just wasnt sure that that engine was built that tough

oh yea the actual block can handle it.  the fastest 420a is running 11's... for that kind of number i'm sure he's running well over 400.