Source of Oil Leak

Hello all,
I posted before about my speedo problem and I got tremendous support from
everyone. So now I wanted help determining the source of the oil leak that developed
in this last month.

Bkgrnd info: '99 Automatic 2.0L DOHC Eclipse.
there is oil leaking all over the underbelly of the car...spewing on the catalyc converter and making it smoke. I changed the oil a month ago and my Father-In-Law commented how clean it was under there. Not anymore. Also, the check Engine light comes on (wow cant imagine why) and the coolant seems to be dissapearing somewhere (not on the driveway ever).
I was told by some other poster in another thread that it is natorious for these engines to blow a head gasket, particularly in the driver's side towards the firewall. The location of the leak certainly does suggest this, but I'd thought I'd get a discussion going as to other possible causes considering all the facts. I dont want to go into this blindly. So here are some pics



Basically there is oil everywhere, including above the headgasket area. Note that there is no sign of coolant inside the cylinders, no milky fluid on the dipstick. Also I checked the spark plugs and there is no sign of oil inside the cylinders. Look at the pick to see what I'm talking about.


Edit...Ugh Photobucket sucks. they keep shrinking my images

head gasket.

PS.. your plugs are ****ed lol

as I said, they ALL suffer from external leaks from the head gasket (located on the rear drivers side corner of the engine, as its the oil feed to the head).
other potential leaks are from the valve cover (although its usually just a little vapor).
a few other leaks that occur are usually HUGE leaks when 1) the oil pressure sensor ruptures, or 2)one of the cam seal pushes itself out of the head.
neither of the latter are common, but I have seen them each at least 2-3 times. Both of the latter will leak POOLS of oil onto the ground in short order only when the engine is running.
internal head gasket leaks are non-existant UNLESS someone severely overheated the engine, in which case the head would probably be warped. So you're probably not consuming coolant. rather, the water pumps have a tendency to "dribble" over time. Not so much as to be considered failed, but a little leak nontheless.

the headgaskets were redesigned twice in the life of the engine.

often, on older cars that arent worth much, the oil leak can be eliminated or limited mearly by removing the valve cover and re-torquing the head bolts, which loosen considerably over time.
it may not totally eliminate it (it usually does), but usually slows it to a drop or two a week. generally its worth trying.

of course, you could kill two birds with one stone and do the head gasket, which requires removal of the timing belt anyway. then the water pump access is easy.

Thank you!
I dont know what happened to your other post in the other thread but oh well.
I was hoping this would attract you to another posting.
Your advice is excellent dude. Thank you.
More questions, because I want to get this right.

The pictures have been shrunk by photobucket so you cant read it anymore.
In the first one it shows an arrow pointing to the valve cover seam. Sludge is
built up between the valve cover and head. Also, it does look like something is
leaking out of the cam sensor aswell. It doesnt seem like those two things are what is
soaking the underside of the car with oil.

Observations:
I did notice more signs of leakage after I get off the highway after an hour or so going around
75-80mph the whole way.

We did notice that the valve cover bolts were very very loose, not even finger tight.

What I gathered:
So the best route I take it would be to first remove the valve cover, put it back and retorquing the bolts.
If that doesnt work then I should prepare to replace the head gasket, and water pump while I'm down there.
This would be a good time to replace the timing belt too huh?
Any suggestions for a particular brand of headgaskets? I'm staying away from ebay ones...
What about timing belts? Any good aftermarket ones?

BTW, how do you know so much?

You can get a good headgasket any place really.

As for hte leaks surrounding the valve cover this is simply down to the loose bolts. Simply tighten them and that will be it really. That problem is totally seperate from the head gasket problem and it will not stop the leaky headgasket. Also, yes this would be a good time to do your general maintanance like timing belt, water pump. Not to mention your plugs! lol

quote:

ORIGINAL: andre2000



The pictures have been shrunk by photobucket so you cant read it anymore.
In the first one it shows an arrow pointing to the valve cover seam. Sludge is
built up between the valve cover and head. Also, it does look like something is
leaking out of the cam sensor aswell. It doesnt seem like those two things are what is
soaking the underside of the car with oil.

a bit of vapor seeping from the valve cover and cam seal is fairly normal over the years. Its usually not enough to be considered a "leak", and theres not much you can do about it.
you could replace the gaskets, which may help. Note that you CANNOT REUSE the valve cover gasket once it has contacted oil. It is designed to swell with contact of oil to improve the seal, but once it swells you will never get it back to its original shape, so if you plan on retightening the head bolts be sure to get a new gasket and 4 new plug seals.

quote:


Observations:
I did notice more signs of leakage after I get off the highway after an hour or so going around
75-80mph the whole way.

normal for the head gasket leak. It also has a tendency to blow around in the wind, so dribbles of oil will splatter at speed.

quote:


We did notice that the valve cover bolts were very very loose, not even finger tight.

the bolts have shoulders on them.. you cant really overtighten them, so just snug them down.

quote:



What I gathered:
So the best route I take it would be to first remove the valve cover, put it back and retorquing the bolts.
If that doesnt work then I should prepare to replace the head gasket, and water pump while I'm down there.
This would be a good time to replace the timing belt too huh?
Any suggestions for a particular brand of headgaskets? I'm staying away from ebay ones...
What about timing belts? Any good aftermarket ones?

BTW, how do you know so much?

yes, that would be the way I would go. clean the engine after your done so you can monitor how much (if any) oil continues to leak.
yes, REPLACE THE TIMING BELT! no matter what you do with the oil/coolant leaks, the belt is good for 100k only, and the engine is an interference engine meaning you will bend valves severly if the belt breaks why you're driving.

I would recommend ONLY the factory gaskets, as they are now completely redesigned and work fantastic. They are (like most automakers) now made of multi-layered steel shims.

and I know so much because Ive been a mitsu tech for 15 years.

Do you know the part # for the head gasket and valve gaskets etc... so I can order online?

quote:

ORIGINAL: andre2000

Do you know the part # for the head gasket and valve gaskets etc... so I can order online?

actually, I have a TSB with a bunch of information you may want.
gimme an email address and Ill shoot it to you.

andre@aiscience.net
cc to paquitin2000@yahoo.com

Damn, I cant thank you more for the help!

Dude you are an asset to the forum.

Also... everyone with problems take note of this guy. Every problem should be presented to us this same way. Pictorial diagrams!

Wow thanks! Nice to be appreciated
Its funny because I'm actually a Zcar enthusiast and this
is how all of us post on our forums. I'm such a picture whore....

I was wondering....My sister-in-law owns a Dodge Stratus and
she has a similar oil leaking all over the underside of her car.
I havent looked at her car, and she is like 400miles away so I cant
take pictures. But are those cars notorious in its own way that you
guys know of? Maybe you can pass on the info here :) Thanks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: andre2000

Wow thanks! Nice to be appreciated
Its funny because I'm actually a Zcar enthusiast and this
is how all of us post on our forums. I'm such a picture whore....

I was wondering....My sister-in-law owns a Dodge Stratus and
she has a similar oil leaking all over the underside of her car.
I havent looked at her car, and she is like 400miles away so I cant
take pictures. But are those cars notorious in its own way that you
guys know of? Maybe you can pass on the info here :) Thanks.

sorry that it took 4 days to answer... had a small vacation.
anyway, the PDF has been emailed.

and the stratus uses the same line of engines, although not 100 percent identical. the head gasket leaking is common among the entire line of engines from chrysler.
which engine does she have in it (size, etc?)? and what year is the car?

420a

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sebba

420a

the engines in a stratus should not be a 420a, its the same family, but not the same. but the driveline depends on if its a coupe or sedan..
the sedan should have a 2.4 liter.
it should have the intake and exhaust manifolds opposed compared to the mitsu version.
I also am pretty sure they had balance shafts.
thats why the year, body style, and engine size is needed here.

I believe it is a 4door but I'm not sure of year or style.
I will try to find out.

Update about my wife's eclipse.
I installed the valve cover seal and checked if the head bolts were torqued.
I cleaned the engine bay up aswell as the underbelly of the car.
It's been driven for over a week and its still all clean under there.
Just in case we will keep it under 80mph (hehe, which is good anyways)
and keep an eye on it. Not sure yet, but it seems the valve cover was the culprit.
$40 fix, not bad.

the head gasket is no doubt leaking (you can bet money on it).
but they are never "large" leaks. they tend to leak more when cold, but when I talk about a leaking head gasket on a 420a, Im talking about a few drips a week, at best.

it just accumulates over time.
if it were my car, I wouldnt bother with the head gasket repair.