Turbo for 2004 model

Ive run into a issue ive bought the 2004 eclipse gts coupe and havent been able to look at a turbo system for my car and have even had people tell me that its impossible and i might be looking at having one custom made anyone have any comments on this throw em out im open for suggestions.

Haven't seen many turbo kits for the 3g Eclipse but here is an alternative, SUPERCHARGER!!!

Ripp Modification Inc. V6 Eclipse Engine Mods

but is a supercharger really gonna give me the speed im looking for and im pretty sure I can have the system custom made for the car if i really wanted it I have been told about a guy in Illinois hahn or something he might be able to custom build me one....

I shoulda just bought a evo because it is built alot better to hold the hp turbo's put into a car i had originally wanted the evo but got the eclipse instead now i wish i didnt im seriously thinking of trading it :(

Here are some links that explain the difference between superchargers and turbochargers...

What is the difference between a turbocharger and a supercharger
What's the difference between Turbos and Superchargers?

At the most basic level, a supercharger and turbocharger do exactly the same thing, they just get the power to spool differently. Both are capable of providing the horsepower gains you are looking for.

I am biased toward the Evo simply because I own one...

My wife had an 01 Spyder GT (now she has a WRX Sportback) which we really enjoyed. The Eclipse is a much better daily driver than the Evo (cruise control, softer suspension etc) and is capable of producing large amounts of HP. The Evo will be a better race car (AWD, suspension) but that speed does come at a price. Maintenance costs are much higher for the Evo (synthetic motor oil, tires, clutch etc) and to get even more power out of the Evo costs significantly more per HP than the Eclipse.

I would highly recommend you test drive an Evo before buying one. They are extermely fast but you have to make sure you can handle them on a daily basis...

quote:

ORIGINAL: CumFortN469

I shoulda just bought a evo because it is built alot better to hold the hp turbo's put into a car i had originally wanted the evo but got the eclipse instead now i wish i didnt im seriously thinking of trading it :(

Ive been looking around and reading and not totally understanding because i dont know anything about cars really but what everyone seems to agree on is that the eclipse computer is too smart and messes up the settings and makes the turbo not work right and such and it would cost alot to have the car altered to fit the turbo ie susupension tcs and all the underneathe stuff and would it be possible to switch out the computer system for maybe a older model or buy a new one or have it reprogrammed?
opps forgot yah jason i test drove a evo and the guy that sold my car suggested i buy it instead of the eclipse but i just like the way the eclipse looks dressed out and this car isnt gonna have racing seats for now its keeping leather seats with custom interior and a sound system body kits dual exhaust and new wing and hood 2 5" screens in the front visors accent lights and alot of more wasted money

That is the impression that RIPP Mods would like for everyone to believe with supporting arguments from RIPP. Don't get me wrong RIPP knows there stuff but to say that there is no way to turbo either the 6G72 or the 4G64 with people such as myself who are capable of doing it is far from the truth that RIPP would like everyone to believe. Currently we are doing three builds here in the Bay Area that says you can turbo charge either engines. The 3G Eclipse and the 8G Galant share the same engines since the 3G Eclipse was built off of the 8G Galant. We share alot of compontes from suspension to engine managment.

There is a guy named Brandon from San Jose who turbo charged the 4G64 Galant:






Here is a video of his first dyno:
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=IMG_0040

quote:

its not all that detailed but it got a video of my dyno run at 5psi i made 168hp with 195tq im gonna do some checks on the engine and tranny to make sure its safe then up the boost to 8 daily 10 for track thw why i figure it i made 13.6 hp per psi so at 8psi i'll break the 200whp mark and at 10 i'll be lose to my 250whp goal for now the car pulls so much harder then stock its crazy the other day i chirped 2nd like it was a stick haha but anyways hers the video i have a couple others but i cant host them at the moment

It is very capable to turbo charge the 4G64. Now for the 6G72 we are currently installing a AAI turbo kit. We are hearing good things about it so there should be no problems with the finished product IMO. I am currently doing the same set up for the 4G64 but using a rebuilt turbo and a couple more other upgrades.

So bottom line is if you go supercharger which after about $8,000.00 plus in parts and labor to hit the 11's and still be limited with the amount of power to your pullies or turbo charge that Eclipse at a fraction of the cost of a RIPP charger and get the same results but with the ability to tune the hell out of it and gain lower times.

Also to point out something else about that RIPP charger. They say no problems with any of there kits sold but I can point you in the direction of someone who is using the RIPP charger for the 6G72 and kept blowing his engine. It got to the point where he pulled the SDS out because it was his second engine rebuild. Pointed to a problem with there black box and menthnal injectors. The problem is fixed now but SDS breaksdown too.

hey thanks man thats some great info I was pretty sure the car could be turbo charged but I wasnt really sure if it was gonna be hella expensive what my goal for that car in the end when the warranty is up on the engine my goal is a 9 sec car without nitrous that should be good enough for me im not looking for a 6-7 sec monster than you cant even drive daily i would love to hear how the turbo works out on the 6g my eclipse is gts coupe 04 i would love to know how much faster and more torque you get out of it and if i get my digital camera to work ill try to post some pics of my car and as far as the computer goes you didnt really talk much about what to do with it because i had a mitsu tech tell me that he had a guy with a 04 eclipse and the guy had but a cold air intake and the comp kept trying to boot it out and was messing up his o2 sensors and such...

First don't listen to Mitsu techs. The reason why the CAI was probably throwing codes and such is because it need to be reset. Unplug the battery for a couple of hours and then it resets the ECU.

Here is what RIPP says about the ecu and there tuning opinions between the SDS and a Turbo. Keep in mind I think alot of it is BS and untruths and why where turbo charging our Galants. To me this sounds more of a sales pitch then anything...

quote:

I'm picking this up from another thread, I felt more of you should get a better understanding of your cars and boosting them.

Again, we are not talking about just boost....It has nothing to do about compressor size or maps. It’s a combination of engine design and electronics.

Lets look at this logistically shall we, and please, save the sarcasm for your friends.

Part 1 the break down:
The 6G72 is not the flagship engine for Mitsubishi, it's really just and engine designed to get descent power for a descent platform. There are several weakness' needed to be addressed. I am going to explain the difference between a turbo and the conditions it will create versus our supercharger system (SDS) and why it simply works with this application (application being the key word). I know it’s long, but it’s packed with facts not opinion, there’s a big difference, what’s common knowledge in this industry is not always applicable everywhere.

Pistons weaknesses:
It’s not so much the design but more the metallurgy of the piston. They are very porous and brittle, which makes them extremely delicate to the exhaust heat and backpressure created under turbo boosted conditions.

Stock manifolds and back pressure:
The second problem in the V6 configuration is the factory exhaust manifolds. They are of an extremely poor design. In initial testing we bench flowed them to a maximum of 740CFM. If you do your math you'll see a turbo pushing 5psi will flow well over 1000-1300cfm with ease, in fact our Vortech V5 G-Trim will flow more like 1600cfm. Which means your stuffing 10lbs of **** in a 5lb bag? If you cannot move the air and heat away from the weak exhaust side of the piston something will have to give, namely the piston. They don't seize, they chip and lose compression.

The third problem is the turbo configuration itself. Conventionally, when your installing a turbo system you will pipe bolt banks together or "Y" them into one and up into your turbo of choice in front of the transmission. So you come out of your poorly designed manifolds on both sides of the block and then across the cross member (about 4 inches from the ground which sucks for ground clearance) and up past your transmission pan (over heating the Trans fluid, causing all those Trans problems) and into your turbo. Since the room is limited most commonly you'll see the same size pipe throughout the build let’s saw 2inch to 2.25. After which you’ll need to come out of the hot side of the turbo with an exhaust pipe, which should be the biggest of them all, but there is simply no room so you use the same size pipe again. It’s obvious at this point there will be a ton of back pressure, this condition will cause boost creep or compressor surge, I’ll get into the problem with that later.

Problem #1 is there is no way for the heat to expand from all 6 cylinders into one very restrictive pipe. Problem #2 this car NEEDS to see the O2 sensors, both before and after the cats and there respective variables. So, since you removed all 3 cats and all 4 O2’s the ECU (explained in detail below) will never ever adapt properly.

So in closing... unless you upgrade your pistons and magically fit up stepping pipes a single turbo system will not work, properly and will cause engine failure and run problems.

Electronics that are to smart:
The last and biggest problem with this car is the electronics, they are simply to smart for dumb electronics (AFC, AFR, FMU, MSD). As you may or may not know, these cars have "adaptive technology", which means they are able to adapt to certain condition and programmed to reject others. Now keep in mind we have spent the better part of the past 3 years working only with the 6G72 platform, so this is not hear say, its' fact.

The turbo set up and the electronics:
Normally when you’re setting up a turbo system you simply place it in line with the factory electronics and use a fuel controller of some sort and move forward with an MSD timing master to control injection retard under boosted conditions. So you would place the factory MAS in front of the turbo and such through it.

Problem #1:
I can only explain this as a running condition:
Once you’ve been through the trouble of installing a turbo system AND GETTING THE CAR TO “RUN” this is how it computes the info being feed FROM INITIAL START UP:

1: Turn the key and crank, it will take longer to crank because the MAS is now over 4 feet from the TB (explained in detail below). Once it fires to life the idle will be sporadic from the larger injectors it’s trying to trim. But it can’t get a proper reading because the EGR valve in not offering a proper reading, so it refers to the O2’s the 02 are not warm yet, so it goes into a limp mode and the idle is either caught high or low. So you try to tame it down with the idle screw but the ECU is controlling the idle with the IAC valve so no dice it does what it wants. Finally is warms up and if sort of calms down.

2. The first drive; once you decide its time for a drive and you step on the gas the MAS air send its info to the ECU: 70 degree’s air temp, 100MPH air velocity, “X” Barometric pressure…. And so on. But! Now all those readings are being “bent and twisted and heated and cooled through the system you built, so as the ECU is preparing for the readings you just feed it, what it getting is completely different. So as it’s advancing the timing to deal with the increased air velocity the turbo is sucking in, the MSD Boost retard you installed is trying to pull timing away. The ECU reads this and throws the 300 code (detonation) even though its not detonating, its reading the resistance at the crank sensor and it goes into limp home mode again.

Now from there the O2 pick up the enriched fuel mixture since there is no cats it reads hotter temps so it pulls the injector pulse down to nothing and you get your lean under boosted conditions. Causing a piston failure and extremely hot under hood conditions.

Keep in mind the ECU will find a “spot” were it will run even with all these variances, but not reliably and not with all the power it can make.

In this car you simply cannot run those piggy back electronics and get away with it. Now I know, some of you have an Apexi AFC or something similar, and I know you had it tuned and you think it's tuned, but let me explain. THE TUNE YOU DID has already been canceled out by there factory ECU, the same day you tuned it and within 9 miles of driving or 3 new key starts. Which means, if you’re running an air filter, headers and AFC... The ECU has already canceled out 75% of the performance gains you thought you bolted on. (Sorry).

Why when you upgrade this car it knows:
Because the ECU knows the difference between the factory configuration and modifications! I know it's bold, but it’s the truth, even if you have installed your mods and taken it to the DYNO, it still will over ride the modifications. It does this mostly through the MAS and the O2's.

Here's how it goes, this ECU is programmed to see the MAS about 12inchs away from the throttle body, when installing a Cold Air System (CAS) you generally move the MAS further down the line, which is why sometimes your car will stall or have an odd hesitation in traffic or pulling from a standing start. The ECU doesn’t know the difference between the distances and cannot compensate timing.

ohh and this is about the 6G72 when asked about the 4G64 by me they keep stepping over the question. I have a AFC installed and dyno ran it. No reset of the computer at all since my last dyno. This will be out first time at turbo charging the 6G72 so maybe if there is a problem this might be a problem with the different ECU's but only time will tell.