yet another timing thread!..'92 monty (Full Version)

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yet another timing thread!..'92 monty

  

cheeto -> yet another timing thread!..'92 monty (12/7/2006 2:46:20 AM)

Hey all!...forum newbie here hoping to find a little help!.....Here's the story:
My little bro has a '92 Montero sport(3.0), we just replaced the T-belt, and now the damn thing won't start.
Engine at TDC...have spark, have fuel, all timing marks lined up perfectly, dizzy rotor pointing at No. 1. We've taken the timing belt off at least five times and redone the whole process. Engine turns fine by hand and turns over with the starter.
I've done several timing jobs on other vehicles, and never had this big of a problem. The only thing that seems strange is that the left cam seems to have a lot of play(can be turned a couple teeth either way with absolutely no effort). According to the Haynes manual "Install the belt with the directional arrow pointing away from the engine"....our replacement belt has no directional arrow, and I dont know what the difference would be.

Other info/questions:
Belt was replaced because the crank pulley seeperated from the balancer. This doesn't necessarily require timing belt replacement, but during pulley removal someone(me) had the not so bright idea of trying to keep the motor from spinning by holding the cam pulley with a ratchet(causing it to jump teeth). Was eventually removed using a chain wrench and impact.

Is this motor a non-interference design?

Common suggestions include various sensors and whatnot. It seems to me if a sensor were telling the ECU to not start, the ECU would do so by withholding spark or fuel.

My bro swears that the distributor has never been removed during the process, so I'm assuming that the #1 piston is at TDC on the comp. stroke(not exhaust) when the dizzy is pointing at #1.

The actual crank and cam sprockets were never removed(and I'm assuming its keyed to only bolt on one way).

I have not checked compression, I suppose this would be the next step. I just can't help but think I'm missing something blatantly obvious or some little mitsu trick I'm not aware of.

HELP!!!![8D].....any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!(sorry for the long post, I just like to be as thorough as possible when describing a problem)

Thanks in advance,
-James

  
off roader -> RE: yet another timing thread!..'92 monty (12/7/2006 2:54:06 AM)

On my 90, I had a timing dimples you aligned. I assume the 92 uses a similar timing mark. Did you line it up properly when installing the timing belt?
[img]http://pics.montypics.com/off-roader/2003-05-24/1053804333_tdc_alignment_marks01.jpg[/img]

tj90 -> RE: yet another timing thread!..'92 monty (12/7/2006 12:31:23 PM)

In my manual ('03) it said absolutely to not turn the motor the the direction opposite normal rotation(CCW bad, CW OK when standing in front of the truck).

Is the pulley with play the same one that jumped teeth and the one you were torquing? My OHC pulleys had no play at TDC when my belt was out.

cheeto -> RE: yet another timing thread!..'92 monty (12/8/2006 1:10:09 AM)

off roader: Yes, it has the exact same timing marks. They are all lined up properly. We checked, doublechecked, redid the whole thing several times just to be absolutely sure. Turned the motor by hand 2 full revolutions to make sure nothing jumped..etc....

tj90: yes it is the same pulley...this is what worries me, although I'm not exactly sure what could have happened.

Winshawn -> RE: yet another timing thread!..'92 monty (12/8/2006 1:56:28 PM)

Sounds like you were very carefull when installing the timing belt. (other than holding the cam to prevent the motor from turning). It is an interference engine, so that might have bent some valves when the belt slipped. However, the car should still start.

Have you checked for simple things? Spark, Fuel?

You can check for codes on the ECM with a multimeter. I think you can find the instructions here.

http://www.stealth316.com/

kponhlo -> RE: yet another timing thread!..'92 monty (12/28/2006 8:04:53 PM)

James,

What did you find to be the problem?  I've got a very similar situation...I replaced head gaskets, and am pretty sure everything went back together according to the Haynes book.  I set all 3 marks (1994 3.0L) with a new T-belt and rotated the crank 2 turns CW as instructed and rechecked the marks before tightening the tensioner.  I verified the rotor was at No. 1 when inserting.  I have fuel and at least some spark, as it spits and sputters while trying to start, almost as if its out of time.  Interestingly, the dist contacts and rotor (new about 1000 mi ago and cleaned during head gasket work) show some carbon on them after trying to start - perhaps the spark is jumping too far?

Troubleshooting starts in earnest tomorrow evening...I have not yet checked compression, timing, fuel pressure, or systematically checked spark output. 

Anything you can offer is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

-Keith

off roader -> RE: yet another timing thread!..'92 monty (12/29/2006 12:37:14 AM)

Kieth,

The haynes book is notoriously inaccurate or simply has inadequite info.  Do yourself a favor if you plan on doing major work like engine rebuilds and get yourself a Factory Manual.  It aint cheap (probably $200+) but it's well worth it if you avoid just one mistake.

HTH.


kponhlo -> RE: yet another timing thread!..'92 monty (1/2/2007 6:04:42 AM)

Well frankly no, it doesn;t really help, although I realize from personal experience that Haynes manuals aren't great.  The $200 manual is, I suspect, going to tell me to align the factory timing marks.  My truck doesn't run with the timing marks aligned perfectly.  The timing IS off...changing the cam/crank alignments a notch makes a difference in the truck wanting to start.   The truck spits more with the cams/crank NOT aligned with the factory marks.  Also, to my surprise, this is not an interference motor, at least with the dished pistons that are in my truck.  Careful turning of the crank without the t-belt yeilds no resistance, no noise, nothing. 

Questions...has anyone found the factory marks to NOT align for proper timing?  I beleive the motor was changed for a used motor at one time.  Would a non-94 crank or cam s[procket have timing marks in the same location as the 1994 3.0L?  

Thanks again.

  

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