2.0L Timing Question (Full Version)

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2.0L Timing Question

  

cougarkid -> 2.0L Timing Question (8/13/2007 5:07:41 PM)

We are in the process (2-months and counting) of rebuilding a 96 2.0L in an Eclipse.  It is the Chrysler engine.
Started out by spinnig the number 1 rod bearing.  Tore it down, had everything turned, replaced, etc.
Put it back together, set the timimg 5 times (check, re-check, check again) and car won't start.  Has fuel and spark, but won't start.
Found out the oil pump wasn't pumping, tore the front end apart and replaced it, again.
Now we have oil pressure, fuel and spark, but still won't start.  Hooked up a timing light, marked the timing marks with white crayon (to make it easy to see) and it is "dead-on" time.

The cam sprockets both have 6 spokes.  There are 2 timing marks on each sproket, 180 degrees apart.
Looking at the cam, on the left spoke it reads "2.4L Front"  and accross on the right side it reads "UP" with 2 arrows pointing up.  Everyone and everything says to align the timimg marks and the top of the head.  None of the pictures I can find show these sprokets and how they are supposed to align.

So, here is my question:

How should these be facing to get the timing set correctly?
Alternatively, which way should the "pins" on the cams for the sprokets point?

Either way, I should be able to tell if the cams are correctly aligned for the timing.

Thanks in advance,

Mike

  
Manybrews -> RE: 2.0L Timing Question (8/15/2007 3:06:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cougarkid

We are in the process (2-months and counting) of rebuilding a 96 2.0L in an Eclipse.  It is the Chrysler engine.
Started out by spinnig the number 1 rod bearing.  Tore it down, had everything turned, replaced, etc.
Put it back together, set the timimg 5 times (check, re-check, check again) and car won't start.  Has fuel and spark, but won't start.
Found out the oil pump wasn't pumping, tore the front end apart and replaced it, again.
Now we have oil pressure, fuel and spark, but still won't start.  Hooked up a timing light, marked the timing marks with white crayon (to make it easy to see) and it is "dead-on" time.

The cam sprockets both have 6 spokes.  There are 2 timing marks on each sproket, 180 degrees apart.
Looking at the cam, on the left spoke it reads "2.4L Front"  and accross on the right side it reads "UP" with 2 arrows pointing up.  Everyone and everything says to align the timimg marks and the top of the head.  None of the pictures I can find show these sprokets and how they are supposed to align.



you've got some problems.
first, the engine is a 2 liter, NOT a 2.4.  so the gear or gears are on backwards.  The gears are used on more than one engine.
second, the marks point towards each other, but dont align to the top of the head (as it cannot be seen with rear timing cover in place).  there is a mark on the back of the timing cover you align them to.  You need to look with a bright light to see it.
third, there is no way to "check timing" on this engine, as there is no timing mark on the crank pulley or timing cover anywhere.  once its aligned via the timing belt, its assumed the timing is correct.  the pulley has no keyway and it can go on anyway it wishes.
sounds like you've probably bent some valves from incorrect valve timing.

cougarkid -> RE: 2.0L Timing Question (8/15/2007 5:59:16 PM)

Manybrews,

Thanks for the info.

Yes, I know it is a 2.0 liter.  Nothing (Chiltons, web sites, etc) ever said that the sprockets could go on 2 different ways.  Not being of Mitsubishi backround, I didn't know.  Didn't think to mention the writing on them until the previos posting.

As far as alignment, yes you CANNOT see the head.  As far as checking the timing, per the Chilton, align everything, install the belt and turn the engine BY HAND 2 complete revolutions and make sure the marks still align.  Stop at any sign of resistance.  Even with no way to adjust, the marks on the gears should meet when No. 1 is at top dead center and there should be a spark at that time, thus the timing light.

Stopped by a local Chrysler dealer at noon today (we have no Mitsubishi dealer) and talked to the service manager.  He, in turn, called another mechanic he knows.  I was also told by him that the gears on on backwards.  You now make it 2 for 2.

We are getting good compression, though apparently not at the right time.  With any luck at all (which has been short around here lately) we have managed NOT to bend any valves.

The only good thing about this is that we didn't burn up the engine with a bad oil pump.

I will add, you are the FIRST person to respond to my posting with a complete, viable answer/solution to my problem.  Everyone has said "timing" but no one ever suggested that the gears might be on backwards.  THANK YOU again.

When (and if) I manage to get this corrected and get the car running, I will post the problem/solution on all the forums I have visited and posted on looking for answers.

Is there a "Tech" section where we can post Q&A's?

Mike

Manybrews -> RE: 2.0L Timing Question (8/15/2007 8:00:19 PM)

dunno.  Just PM me.  Ive worked for mitsu for 16 years.
also, throw the Chiltons book in the trash, because thats all it is.
go buy a mitsu factory manual, no matter what the cost.

cougarkid -> RE: 2.0L Timing Question (8/19/2007 8:50:34 AM)

2 words...

IT RUNS
 
Reversal of the cam gears and then setting the timing solved the problem.

We also pulled the oil pan, main cap and oil pump to fix a leak just above the oil filter.
Turns out there is supposed to be an o-ring in there, but no one mentioned it and it didn't come in the gasket set.

Car has been through the initail warm-up and seating of the rings.  Purring like a kitten now.
This week I get to drive it to break it in.  Son is off to school, so he would be doing mostly highway driving.

Will try to put together a list of the do's and don'ts we found along the way and get it posted some time this week.

Thanks again to all that helped!

Mike

98MITE -> RE: 2.0L Timing Question (8/28/2007 7:26:17 PM)

I almost thought that I made that post . I had the same problem . Only change to the story I would make is there is a mark on the lower gear and the block the mark is supposed to be 1/2 tooth btdc. hard to find.. the Holes will be up on the cams for #1 cylinder also. I used a rod in the sparkplug hole to tell when I had TDC .There are pins in the cams that align the pullies with the cams ..My engine ran fine until we found a oil leak where a front cam seal was split.. sad.. Now the engine will not fire. fuel pump runs injectors fire but there is no spark .. I am told it would have to be the crank sensor. Is this a common problem..?

cougarkid -> RE: 2.0L Timing Question (8/28/2007 8:17:31 PM)

The holes on both cams (to hold them still) will be up when crank is on TDC and cams are aligned.  Crank turns twice for every one turn of the cams.

Lower pulley HAS to be off to see the alignment mark for the crank.  Set it a 1/2 tooth before TDC, install the belt, turn it to TDC and check the cam marks.  We held the tension pully with a socket and breaker bar as we spun the engine over 2 turns by hand (tired of resetting that blasted tensioner).  1st time one cam was off by 1 tooth.  Reset, spun it again and were dead on.

Make sure the coil pack is plugged in.  Last time we tried to start it (before it fired up) we didn't have the power to it plugged in.  If it cranks and pumps gas but no spark, yes I would say crank sensor, too.

Just my guess, not too sure about these engines yet.

  

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