RE: Outlander 2008 4WD lock Stock in snow ???

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RE: Outlander 2008 4WD lock Stock in snow ???

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RE: Outlander 2008 4WD lock Stock in snow ??? - 12/24/2007 3:12:47 PM

armymen

Posts: 86
Joined: 12/20/2007
Status: offline

that not fun :(
so the 4 Weel Drive, dont work when you need it lol, or when you realy need it, like then you are stock and you realy need 4 weel to turn :(

(in reply to armymen)

Post #: 11

RE: Outlander 2008 4WD lock Stock in snow ??? - 12/27/2007 10:48:42 AM

Kwanger

Posts: 47
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline

I wouldn't say that it doesn't work when you need it - its just that if you are in that deep on a regular basis, you really need a proper 4x4 with locking diffs (and maybe even off road tires), not AWD and summer tires like on the Outlander. Snow tires would help you out somewhat, however.

The AWD Outie will help in rain, it will help in snow covered roads, it will help on gravel and loose surfaces, but if you are ploughing through fields or driving around in a couple of feet of snow, or driving through the desert, its going beyond what this vehicle is designed for.

< Message edited by Kwanger -- 12/27/2007 10:52:26 AM >

(in reply to armymen)

Post #: 12

RE: Outlander 2008 4WD lock Stock in snow ??? - 12/27/2007 10:43:36 PM

rcpax

Posts: 535
Joined: 2/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kwanger

I wouldn't say that it doesn't work when you need it - its just that if you are in that deep on a regular basis, you really need a proper 4x4 with locking diffs (and maybe even off road tires), not AWD and summer tires like on the Outlander. Snow tires would help you out somewhat, however.

The AWD Outie will help in rain, it will help in snow covered roads, it will help on gravel and loose surfaces, but if you are ploughing through fields or driving around in a couple of feet of snow, or driving through the desert, its going beyond what this vehicle is designed for.

On the contrary, I've driven my Outlander XLS in manual mode through snow a foot deep and muddy conditions while our subdivision was still in construction (the joys/hassle of being the first one to buy a house there), and so far the vehicle has been totally satisfying to drive. Although I would agree that tires need to match the road conditions. The all weather OEM ones is a compromise but things can probably be a lot better using winter/tarmac/off-road special tires according to the conditions (if you have the money to spare for it). And talking about driving in the desert, Mitsubishi is sending an Outlander in the 08 Dakar to prove that the Outlander is very much capable of doing just that.

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(in reply to Kwanger)

Post #: 13

RE: Outlander 2008 4WD lock Stock in snow ??? - 12/28/2007 12:32:04 AM

himbeertoni

Posts: 6
Joined: 12/4/2007
Status: offline

Yeah, but who knows if they didn't change the drive train and put some locks in.

Cheers
Himbeertoni

(in reply to rcpax)

Post #: 14

RE: Outlander 2008 4WD lock Stock in snow ??? - 12/28/2007 8:19:36 AM

Kwanger

Posts: 47
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcpax

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kwanger

I wouldn't say that it doesn't work when you need it - its just that if you are in that deep on a regular basis, you really need a proper 4x4 with locking diffs (and maybe even off road tires), not AWD and summer tires like on the Outlander. Snow tires would help you out somewhat, however.

The AWD Outie will help in rain, it will help in snow covered roads, it will help on gravel and loose surfaces, but if you are ploughing through fields or driving around in a couple of feet of snow, or driving through the desert, its going beyond what this vehicle is designed for.

On the contrary, I've driven my Outlander XLS in manual mode through snow a foot deep and muddy conditions while our subdivision was still in construction (the joys/hassle of being the first one to buy a house there), and so far the vehicle has been totally satisfying to drive. Although I would agree that tires need to match the road conditions. The all weather OEM ones is a compromise but things can probably be a lot better using winter/tarmac/off-road special tires according to the conditions (if you have the money to spare for it). And talking about driving in the desert, Mitsubishi is sending an Outlander in the 08 Dakar to prove that the Outlander is very much capable of doing just that.

I love my Outie too, and as I said, it will help a lot, even with muddy subdivision and general snowy road conditions - but there's *no way* its up to deep sand or similar without mods to include a diff lock. I work in the Oil and Gas industry and having spent a lot of time inspecting sites in remote locations in the desert, I think I can safely say your stock Outie wouldn't last 5 mins without getting stuck in the heavy stuff. By way of comparison the vehicles we use in the middle east are Toyota Landcruisers with balloon sand tires - even landcruisers in diff lock without the big tires can struggle with the deep stuff.

The Dakar team with its Outie (as a support vehicle - which means it won't be taking the arduous racing route anyway.....) will have all the right gear (including tires for every foreseeable circumstance). It will be significantly different to stock.

< Message edited by Kwanger -- 12/28/2007 8:23:42 AM >

(in reply to rcpax)

Post #: 15

RE: Outlander 2008 4WD lock Stock in snow ??? - 12/28/2007 8:32:07 AM

Kwanger

Posts: 47
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline

For interest - have a look at this cool vid showing one of the race Mitsu Pajeros (which bear absolutely *no* resemblance to a road Pajero either as they are purpose built massively expensive race vehicles) -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkMjhzv_zzE

Pay attention the initial deep sand stuff (shows what I'm on about when I say deep sand!) and look at the size of the tire at about :12 seconds or so, and later at 1:43. Also not just how many different types of tires you see, constantly changing for the different stages.

I know its going OT, but your road Outie cannot do this, and they are not going to be trying to.

(in reply to Kwanger)

Post #: 16

RE: Outlander 2008 4WD lock Stock in snow ??? - 12/28/2007 8:53:24 AM

rcpax

Posts: 535
Joined: 2/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: himbeertoni

Yeah, but who knows if they didn't change the drive train and put some locks in.

Cheers
Himbeertoni

Drivetrain remains unchanged, and is the same for the road going version, chassis is basically the same but with the addition of a rollcage, which is a requirement for the race for safety reasons.

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Post #: 17

RE: Outlander 2008 4WD lock Stock in snow ??? - 12/28/2007 9:11:35 AM

rcpax

Posts: 535
Joined: 2/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kwanger

For interest - have a look at this cool vid showing one of the race Mitsu Pajeros (which bear absolutely *no* resemblance to a road Pajero either as they are purpose built massively expensive race vehicles) -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkMjhzv_zzE

Pay attention the initial deep sand stuff (shows what I'm on about when I say deep sand!) and look at the size of the tire at about :12 seconds or so, and later at 1:43. Also not just how many different types of tires you see, constantly changing for the different stages.

I know its going OT, but your road Outie cannot do this, and they are not going to be trying to.

The Outlander is a production vehicle, thus it was not built for competition. This is the same Outlander most EU owners drive. Now, I am not arguing with you that this Outlander is by no means a match to the Pajero Evos, but what I'm saying is, it's still capable of driving in sand and desert conditions. It won't be taking the competition route, but most of the roads will be unpaved especially in Mauritania, just as punishing as some part of the competition stages. Just completing the 6000km rally (probably more for the support route) is already a feat in itself. That alone would be an accomplishment for the production Outlander, and hopefully the engine will make it to Lac Rose.

< Message edited by rcpax -- 12/28/2007 9:19:12 AM >

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Post #: 18

RE: Outlander 2008 4WD lock Stock in snow ??? - 12/28/2007 12:02:51 PM

Sirius

Posts: 9
Joined: 11/12/2007
Status: offline

Pay attention guys, the problem is the low speed at first movement of the car, in this case the traction control (that receive signal from every wheel) is not able to compare which wheel is loosing grip and at low speed (around 5 mph), it doesn't work and result in a locked vehicle on ice, snow or sand. The only way to mantain the system active is to proceed at a minimum speed of 5 to 10 mph, in this case, the wheels that slip are braked and this result in a tourque tranfer to the other wheel on the same axel (the wheel with more grip)
This is not a problem of our car, all traction control sys works so, and at the moment the only car able to start on low friction surfaces with only a wheel in traction is the new Subaro Impreza :-(

Sorry for my bad english

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Post #: 19

RE: Outlander 2008 4WD lock Stock in snow ??? - 12/28/2007 12:55:44 PM

tcp

Posts: 186
Joined: 6/14/2007
Status: offline

Sorry, but I disagree. The subaru impreza or audi torsen differentials have a natural limited slip configuration. While most AWD systems lack the physical ability to lock the differentials internally, the same thing can be accomplished using ABS control on a single side, it just takes a few milliseconds longer. Watching this video, we have no idea what the wheels on the other side of the vehicle are doing, spinning or standing still. We CAN tell that both front and rear wheels on the one side are spinning evenly telling us that torque is being transfered front to rear in relative even amounts.

The ABS/ASC/TRAC systems on modern vehicles use a hall effect sensor that reads somewhere from 3-5degrees of rotation...that means it reads 80-120 times per wheel revolution and any differences are compared, wheel to wheel. there is no need for 5-10mph to notice differences in wheel speed.

I would bet money that all 4 wheels on that vehicle are spinning at exactly the same speed with the control of side-to-side torque being handled by the ABS and ASC system...unfortunatly, there is no traction to be had at that place in the road. Especially with 18" all season/summer tires.

I suggest you watch this video...no traction means no movement...possibly studded tires would help. They are being idiots, but the traction just isn't there. Watch them start to slide from basically a standstill...watch the wheels front wheels on the one sliding down the road...he's trying to steer, no traction at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk

I've been in conditions like this and the impreza/audi wouldn't move either. We (two average guys) actually pushed a 4000lb truck sideways from a standstill...with traction grips on our boots and a pole to lean against with summer tires on the truck...it's all about the friction.

< Message edited by tcp -- 12/28/2007 1:06:37 PM >

(in reply to Sirius)

Post #: 20