Rear fog lights/lamp (Full Version)

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Rear fog lights/lamp

  

batman47 -> Rear fog lights/lamp (1/28/2008 1:07:59 PM)

The 2007/2008 Outlander comes with a multi-purpose switch lever assembly with a first rotary switch knob and a second rotary switch knob composed with a light switch for selectively switching a plurality of switch terminals and a fog light switch (rear or front) by selectively connecting switch terminals. The US model doesn’t have, the rear fog light activation rotary switch or it is just not visible on the lever knob.   Does someone know or have some knowledge of how I can devise a procedure to trigger a rear fog light, that will light permanently when activated (by rotating a switch) when the conditions so require, e.g. heavy fog, rain or snow. Generally, US models connect the European fog light wire to the brake circuit thereby giving the US model a third brake light.   I would need to buy a new conventional European composite switch lever that is mounted on the Outlander steering column to replace the original US switch lever. What I do not know is if the US harness will allow me to do that swap. Assuming that the harness is compatible (on the belief that Mitsubishi would not manufacture two harness, one for Europe and Asia and one for the America market), can it be connected by the Mitsubishi dealer, just like that, and bingo or the dealer needs to activate the new European switch lever by connecting it to their shop computer and telling the OBC that the fog lights and switch are there?   The final results if everything goes OK is that by rotating the switch a little, the rear fog light lights, and the rear fog light icon lights in the instrumentation panel.   I have seen a number of European car manufactures with plants in the USA, BMW (e.g. MINI), VW, etc that provides dealers with rear fog light kits to be ready when a customer requires this essential safety feature.

  
batman47 -> RE: Rear fog lights/lamp (1/28/2008 1:15:15 PM)

The 2008 Mitsubishi Outlander ES 2.4L 4cyl CVT has an option F3 Accessory Fog Lights., which means that this car comes without front fog light/lamp in the USA at least for the above named model, however this situation does not mean that the fog light harness/wiring is not lined up inside the vehicle. It is very probable that the lights lever/knob has the front fog light icon/symbol scribbled on it (as a decoration) and only the functionality i.e. activate and deactivate has been disabled for those customer who do not require  front fog lights in his/her Outlander. The F3 accessory kit allows the lever/knob on the steering wheel to activate the front fog light/lamps that come with the kit. It could also be that once the front fog lamps are physically plugged into the fog lights hollows and the connectors that come with the fog light kit connected to the fog light harness of the vehicle a small circular turn switch on the lever/knob will activate the front fog light and make it fully operative.  This is a straightforward procedure for Mitsubishi that will require only elementary efforts of its technician. The MSRP for this F3 accessory is $280 plus $labour

According to the Outlander 2003 workshop it seems that there are only two switches shipped with the Outlander from Japan. A switch-1 and a switch-2. Switch-1 is composed of two switches, i.e. the front fog lamp switch and rear fog lamp switch which are in the same device. These switches are integrated in the lever/knob of the steering wheel that controls the lights (i.e. dip/beam lights). The switch-2 is only rear fog lamp switch and this switch is compulsory in Europe although the front fog light is not. In other words, in Europe the front fog lamps are an option but not the rear fog light which is compulsory. In Europe if a customer wants a front fog light, the dealer just changes switch-2 for switch-1 and installs the front fog lamps kit. Switch-1 will activate the front and the rear fog lights/lamps. Because the harness for both fog lights is already there without undergoing any alteration, the procedure seems to be straightforward.

It appears to me that in the US the switch-1 harness is installed in all Outlander vehicles sold in the US with the exception of the front fog lamps assembly/kit itself. Option F3 is for the customers who wants a front fog lamps in the Outlander and it consists mainly of the front fog lights assembly/kit. Because the lever/knob set (steering wheel) of a US Outlander has not any visual information about the rear fog light (no icon/symbol); this feature (rear fog light manually operated) is purposely eliminated by disabling the rear fog light LED on the instrumentation panel and by using a modified stamp lever/knob device (no rear fog lamp icon/symbol) and the rear fog lamp wiring to the rear ‘fog’ lamps. Because the Outlander has two rear fogs lamp assemblies the harness/wiring of the rear fog lamps is connected to the brake harness/wiring and as a result the US Outlander has three braking lamps (or four).

Mitsubishi America, I think has resolved this situation by manufacturing two types of fog lamp switches as it has always been the case. One composed switch: front fog lights and rear fog lights in the same device. The second switch is only rear fog light. In Europe all cars comes with rear fog light, therefore this switch is mandatory. In the US fog lights are not mandatory, but the majority of US customers are keen to have front fog lights as an option. Mitsubishi has resolved  this dilemma by installing the composed fog switch (switch-1 rear and front), in the US vehicles, deleting the rear fog light stamp/symbol from the European lever/knob, disabling the LED rear fog symbol light from the instrumentation panel, and bypassing the rear fog light wiring by activating them only when the brake pedal is depressed.

Originally I though this rear fog light is a very complicated procedure but after the analysis above everybody that will like to have a rear fog light need only to find a willing dealer to reverse the steps that have previously disabled the rear fog lights information that in my opinion all the US Outlander come with..  

batman47 -> RE: Rear fog lights/lamp (1/28/2008 1:37:28 PM)

Word is that the wiring for the rear fog light is already present in US-spec cars. There is some debate about this but it should be easy enough to figure out: The first step is to remove the harness plug from the taillight cluster and count the wires. You would need:

1) Power for taillight
2) Power for brake light
3) Power for turn signal light
4) Power for rear fog light 5) Power for the reverse light
6) Ground wire for cluster

so if the harness plug has 6 wires going into it, then it sounds like we've got the wiring for the rear fog.

Of course you would also need the bulb, but other reports here have indicated that on US cars, the bulb (same wattage than the brake bulb) is already installed in the bulb holder.

Next step is to check out the fuse box. Is there a fuse specifically labelled for rear fog light? Is it missing? Worth a look. Check the fuse box inside the car and also the one under the hood.

Next part is where a service manual comes in handy or some help from our European friends. Word is that the wire for the rear fog at the taillight cluster is yellow/brown. If we're lucky, that wire goes all the way to the knob switch located in the steering column but I kind of doubt that is based on the construction of the lever/knob multi-function switch.

So what would be really nice is if we could get some digital pics of the harness plug and wiring at the lever/knob multi-function switch for US cars and European cars. This would help determine if the lever/knob switches are directly interchangeable -- would help if the pics are from cars with identical specifications.

If the wiring coming out of the multi-function switch is the same, i.e. same number of wires, same colors in European vs. US, then it would seem the Euro lever/knob would be plug-and-play to activate the rear fog light.

As some have conjectured, there may be a lighting control module. But I would suspect if Outlander’s implementation of the on-board computer (OBC) is any indication, the module is the same regardless of whether the car is US or Europe spec, and you just need the switch and possibly a fuse to activate the rear fog light. If there is lighting control module then perhaps also a computer programming change, and that's the big "if." Anybody a dealer service tech or have access to a dealer service tech for this kind of information? Seems a Outlander service insider would know the answer to this part of the equation.

If it can be identified which wire from the multi-function switch is responsible for switching the rear fog light, it should be simple enough to apply +12v to the wire to determine if this makes the rear fog light come on. Of course, before doing this, might be a good idea to measure voltages coming IN to the lever/knob multi-function switch to make sure 12v is the right level - easy enough with a voltmeter. If that does the trick, then the Euro switch lever/knob would be the way to go to get the rear fog light working.

I think with the multinational resource in this forum that is Mitsubishi, this is a problem that can be fairly easily solved. Our European friends could help us to obtain the European lever/knob of the Outlander multi-function switch.

puddy -> RE: Rear fog lights/lamp (1/31/2008 8:17:47 AM)

I think it may not be as simple to change to a euro lighting stick.  Not sure how your indictor/turn lights are wired up? all EU cars dont have the same turn lights lit all the time as in the usa 

My outlander only as 1 rear fog light so I am considering wiring the other one up.  I hate car makers who use 1 fog light at the rear

puddy

batman47 -> RE: Rear fog lights/lamp (2/1/2008 9:28:54 AM)

The car in the photo is a LHD 2008 Outlander with two sets of lights. One set 10 inches above the other set is responsible for the brake lights, turning side lights and reverse lights). The other set is responsible for the rear fog light. The reason why these two lights are there is that European (West, East and Russia) is LHD (left hand drive) and the UK, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore are RHD. The rear fog light is compulsory in almost all countries with the exception of Canada and US. If the vehicle is LHD then the one rear fog light that must light is the left rear fog light. In RHD the rear fog light lamp must light in the right rear side of the car. Car manufacturers just build one model and adapt the circuitry to the demands of the respective countries. Rear fog light is a safety requirement which is very important when the weather is foggy, snowy, rainy, and dusty.


These are the Californian regulations:

CALIFORNIA CODES
VEHICLE CODE
SECTION 24602
24602. (a) Any vehicle may be equipped with not more than two red fog tail lamps mounted on the rear which may be lighted, in addition to the required tail lamps, only when atmospheric conditions, such as fog, rain, snow, smoke, or dust, reduce the daytime or nighttimes visibility of other vehicles to less than 500 feet.

[image]local://upfiles/15888/57DEA05D70F941B7AF9F0C64946D0220.jpg[/image]

batman47 -> RE: Rear fog lights/lamp (2/1/2008 9:52:38 AM)

Note: Click the photo above to enlarge.

It is not compulsory to have a rear fog light in US. Please confirm if your  Outlander has a rear fog light installed by the manufacturer. Perhaps you are talking about the rear side indicator?

The issue of the rear fog lights in US vehicles has some technical difficulties for the understanding of the average individual. I have checked the issue of the reflectors lamps and the rear fog lights and I can say that both terms refer to the same thing.
I am able to say with certainty that if the 2008 Outlander has front fog lights, then the vehicle has all the harness and everything needed to activate the rear fog light.


The procedure is as follows:
1-Approach your Mitsubishi dealership and ask to talk with the electrician 2-Request that you want a rear fog light in your car activated. 3-The technician will most possible respond that he/she needs to order some stuff. The stuff will probably be:             Rear fog light fuse             Rear fog light relay             Rear fog light bulb (a brake bulb will do OK)             Rear fog light unit (one or two): if the reflector is just a piece of plastic.
4-If the technician is skillful and the parts have been ordered he/she will do the job in a couple of hours maximum.

What the technician will do while you are waiting?

He/she will uncover the harness at the rear of the car and will identify the power wire in this harness to connect to the rear fog lamp unit connector. She/he will connect the Vehicle Communication Interface (VCI) to the vehicle (located in the driver seat area). The VCI will be connected as well to a laptop and a software program will be run to tell the OBC (on-board-computer) to recognize the new hardware (i.e. rear fog light). Once the rear fog light obeys the manipulation of the stalk multi-function switch, at the steering wheel column the job can be considered as finished.

BMW forum people has managed to add a rear fog light to the MINI. BMW is the only European manufacturer that does not implement the rear fog light with its cars. Volvo, Mercedes, Saab, VW, Audi install the rear fog light in their cars. Does somebody Have experiences with this type of work?

oldpapa1949 -> RE: Rear fog lights/lamp (2/1/2008 9:55:45 PM)

I looked in my US Outlander PDF and it says the red reflectors are rear side marker lights.  As shown in the pix they do light up..
Wish I knew how to copy the pix from manual..

Old


batman47 -> RE: Rear fog lights/lamp (2/2/2008 1:18:21 AM)

Hi oldpapa!

Here some questions I will appreciate it you could answer.

(1)- What trim and year is your US Mitsubishi (e.g. LS, XLS, SE)?
(2)- How do you activate it so the reflector could light? Do you activate it using the multi-function stalk by the steering wheel column or a Toggle buttom? Does it light permanently?
(3)- Where did you buy your Outlander (e.g. CA, TX, FL, etc)
Could you publish a photo?

The procedure are:

a-digital photo of the reflector lighting
b-upload the photo into your PC/laptop
c-Use the facilities in this forum to download your photo.

oldpapa1949 -> RE: Rear fog lights/lamp (2/2/2008 9:34:53 AM)

Hey Batman47

1: 2007 XLS
2: Will check it in a bit if they come on, this info I got was from my Outlander US CD all PDF
3: Here in Utah

I will try the photo, only if it lights, But if it gets warm enuf, I will see if I can remove the lens and see if there is a bulb.

Old


tdford -> RE: Rear fog lights/lamp (2/2/2008 12:01:44 PM)

He is in the US. So when you turn on your lights, get out, go to the back and you will see that the side of those red lamps are on. In the US you have to have a type of reflector in the rear, the lamp doubles as a reflector. Because our LED tailamps have no reflector built in... the lower lamp has to.

The dealer is not going to know how to install Rear Fogs. If you ask, 99.9% of them are not going to know what a Rear Fog even is. The best you can do is buy the Euro stalk, plug it in, hoping that the harness will work. Get that rear red lamp out, see if you can put a blub in, if yes put one in. If not, you'll have to order the Euro lamp assembly as well. Hook it up and pray.

  

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