Fluid change

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Fluid change

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Fluid change - 7/18/2006 12:40:17 PM

redtide265

Posts: 4
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline

My friends' mom has a 2004 Endeavor (Limited, I believe, but not for sure)
When I return home, I will be doing a tranny service, differential service, oil change on it.
What is the full-fill of the transmission (ALL the fluid, not just dropping the pan, replacing the filter, and replacing the spent fluid)? What fluid is recommended?
What is the recommended fluid for the differential(s)? How much fluid? Anything special to add?
On a side note: I have not worked on this before. Is it FWD or RWD (as its primary drive configuration)?

All I know is she loves it, I think it looks good, and, while I've never driven it, it sure does go down the road nice.

BTW: Is there anything I should look for (common problems)?
Thanks ahead of time.
-James

< Message edited by redtide265 -- 7/18/2006 12:41:05 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Fluid change - 7/18/2006 8:38:31 PM

lovinmud

Posts: 10
Joined: 7/3/2006
Status: offline

Just wanted to let you know that the priary drive is FWD, but the limited do come in all wheel drive as well. Not 4X4 but all wheel drive. The symbol will be located on the rear lift gate in the bottom right corner. I can not help you out on the rest of the stuff because my endeavor did not come with an owners manual. If you find out would you please email me back. Thanks.

(in reply to redtide265)

Post #: 2

RE: Fluid change - 7/30/2006 8:59:44 PM

redtide265

Posts: 4
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline

OK, I got a look at the owners manual.
The transmission holds 8.9 quarts for FWD, 9.3 for AWD, and uses ONLY Diamond ATF SPIII.
The rear differential holds 1.2 quarts. The recommended fluid is: for -10degrees F and above SAE 90 or 85W-90 or 80W-90; for -30degrees F to -10degrees F SAE 80 or 80W-90; for -30degrees F and below SAE 75.
The transfer case holds .58 quarts, and recommended fluid is: SAE 90.
The fluid used in the rear differential and transfer case should be "Hypoid gear" oil, and meet GL-5 or above standards (pretty much any gear oil meets that).

(in reply to lovinmud)

Post #: 3

RE: Fluid change - 7/30/2006 11:08:00 PM

Manybrews

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: United States
Status: offline

first thing, there is no pan nor filter to change on the transaxle. it is mearly a drain and fill. Unless you plan on utilizing a flushing machine.
make sure you use ONLY an appropriate GL-5 for the transfer case and rear diff (both of which hold very little).

(in reply to redtide265)

Post #: 4

RE: Fluid change - 8/12/2006 11:15:30 AM

redtide265

Posts: 4
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manybrews

first thing, there is no pan nor filter to change on the transaxle. it is mearly a drain and fill. Unless you plan on utilizing a flushing machine.
make sure you use ONLY an appropriate GL-5 for the transfer case and rear diff (both of which hold very little).

Yes, I found out this lack-of-serviceable-filter from the dealer. There is a filter, basically built into the transmission (the parts guy looked it up, warranty gives them 12.5 hours to remove/replace the filter).
Even the dealer acknowledged it's a retarded setup. If there's one thing I know, its that filters, no matter what they are for, need to be changed on some sort of regular intervail, and hiding them inside something like an automatic transmission is not a way for a customer to keep proper care of their automobile.

(in reply to Manybrews)

Post #: 5

RE: Fluid change - 8/12/2006 12:11:48 PM

Manybrews

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: redtide265

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manybrews

first thing, there is no pan nor filter to change on the transaxle. it is mearly a drain and fill. Unless you plan on utilizing a flushing machine.
make sure you use ONLY an appropriate GL-5 for the transfer case and rear diff (both of which hold very little).

Yes, I found out this lack-of-serviceable-filter from the dealer. There is a filter, basically built into the transmission (the parts guy looked it up, warranty gives them 12.5 hours to remove/replace the filter).
Even the dealer acknowledged it's a retarded setup. If there's one thing I know, its that filters, no matter what they are for, need to be changed on some sort of regular intervail, and hiding them inside something like an automatic transmission is not a way for a customer to keep proper care of their automobile.

actually, thats total bunk.
most transmissions built in the last 10 years are like that. The filter doesnt need to be changed on ANY interval, as the trans doesnt produce enough debris to justify one.
the filter would only need changing if you had a catasrophic failure. Toyotas transmission supplier (asian-warner) has never had a servicable filter on any of their trannies (just a wire screen)... and they last forever.
the number one way to keep a trans in good working order is to change the fluid. The fluid looses its quality over time; the filter doesnt. Besides, the filters size is 5 times larger than it needs to be.
what Im trying to say is you actually benefit from a non-servicable filter in that maintenence costs are reduced, and overall reliability doesnt change at all.

(in reply to redtide265)

Post #: 6

RE: Fluid change - 8/17/2006 2:08:11 PM

redtide265

Posts: 4
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manybrews
what Im trying to say is you actually benefit from a non-servicable filter in that maintenence costs are reduced, and overall reliability doesnt change at all.

I really don't think that $20 for a filter and gasket every 20-30,000 miles is going to break anyones budget.
Not using synthetic motor oil in vehicles that don't need them (such as this particular vehicle) will save a heck of a lot more money than not having to remove/replace a transmission filter. Of course, there is nothing wrong with running synthetics, but vehicles will still run without them.

quote:

most transmissions built in the last 10 years are like that.

Could have fooled me there. Granted, I don't work on cars all day, but my truck ('96 Dodge Dakota) has one, my friends '95 Ford Taurus had one, friends dads '04 GMC Savanna's got one, and all the currect Dodge trucks have them, their not built "into" the transmission, but sit right there when you take the tranny pan off. Must be a mostly Japenese thing.

Let me guess, there's probably also no magnet in the transmission pan to collect metal filings THAT DO INFACT OCCUR IN EVERY TRANSMISSION. And you would probably by the BS engineers tell you if they did not include one.

I won't sit here and argue anymore because some stupid engineers choose not to make a servieable filter (and oh my, why should we argue with them, their the ones with degrees!). You can buy their BS, I'll stick to owning vehicles that have them, and will replace them when I change the fluid, it gives me a piece of mind.

< Message edited by redtide265 -- 8/17/2006 2:16:21 PM >

(in reply to Manybrews)

Post #: 7

RE: Fluid change - 8/18/2006 7:07:13 PM

Manybrews

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: redtide265

I really don't think that $20 for a filter and gasket every 20-30,000 miles is going to break anyones budget.
Not using synthetic motor oil in vehicles that don't need them (such as this particular vehicle) will save a heck of a lot more money than not having to remove/replace a transmission filter. Of course, there is nothing wrong with running synthetics, but vehicles will still run without them.

first, one of the MAIN things car manufacturers look at to sell their cars is cost of ownership. ANYTHING that can be done to minimize repairs/maintenence is money in their pockets. and its beneficial to the consumer, too, as it means the car has been developed to last longer.
Also, synthetic oils are pretty much a waste in 99 percent of the cars that people put them in. the ONLY time they are of any benefit is extreem temperature conditions. Any other time they have absolutly no benefit, and in fact there is some proof that synthetics cause more long term wear.

quote:

Could have fooled me there. Granted, I don't work on cars all day, but my truck ('96 Dodge Dakota) has one, my friends '95 Ford Taurus had one, friends dads '04 GMC Savanna's got one, and all the currect Dodge trucks have them, their not built "into" the transmission, but sit right there when you take the tranny pan off. Must be a mostly Japenese thing.

if you look, most of those trannies are probably never meant to be serviced.
all of GMs current front drive trannies have no dipstick. they have no drain. They are "lifetime" sealed units. Toyota has only a drain on their trannies (as does mitsu), because all you need to do it drain and fill (and in case you didnt realize, Asian-warner trannies are the best on the planet, having been used by not only toyota, but mitsu, isuzu, jeep, volvo, and many, many other companies.).
you must modify your way of thinking. Transmissions do not develope the same corrosive chemicals that engines do; they arent subjected to combustion. So they only need to deal with normal wear and degradation of the fluid. The latter is taken care of by routine fluid changes, the first is taken care of by whatever miniscule filter is present, and a magnet.

quote:

Let me guess, there's probably also no magnet in the transmission pan to collect metal filings THAT DO INFACT OCCUR IN EVERY TRANSMISSION. And you would probably by the BS engineers tell you if they did not include one.

the magnet is part of the drain plug. If you actually looked rather than bitched, you would know this.

quote:

I won't sit here and argue anymore because some stupid engineers choose not to make a servieable filter (and oh my, why should we argue with them, their the ones with degrees!). You can buy their BS, I'll stick to owning vehicles that have them, and will replace them when I change the fluid, it gives me a piece of mind.

your way of thinking is archaic. this isnt 1971 anymore; cars are engineered 1000 times better. and the "servicable filter" you rave about is not the saving grace of a transmission, as there are many transmissions that dont technically have a "filter" on them. in the old days, the only reason filters got changed (assuming someone actually even changed the fluid in the first place) was because of the IDIOTIC way the americans did it. Requiring a total pan removal is idiotic, messy, and a pain in the ass. The japanese realize that the filter does NOT need to be changed, only the fluid. Hence we have drain plugs on the trannies, and automatic trans quality light years beyond anything the americans made. I cant think of a japanese car that requires anything but a fluid change for their autos. Mitsu, toyota, honda, nissan.. just drain and fill. hell, mitsu actually HAD a secondary screw on filter for the trans you have in your endeavor when it was introduced in 96, but realized it was more of a hassle than anything because it didnt do anything. No one ever changed them, and the redundancy of it prooved to be a waste of money.
In case you didnt realize it, the americans have finally righted themselves in that most new trannies have a drain with no other service necessary. Your average consumer cannot even check the fluid level on a GM car without taking it to a shop.

< Message edited by Manybrews -- 8/18/2006 7:10:28 PM >

(in reply to redtide265)

Post #: 8