RE: 1g balance shaft
Login  | |
|
RE: 1g balance shaft - 11/17/2006 11:54:51 PM
|
|
|
silvercoupe97
Posts: 3420
Score: 0
Joined: 11/10/2006
Status: offline
|
Who said anything about gaining any HP from removing the BS? The BS is obviously not needed as badly as you make it sound in your post. If it was and if it was a miracle shaft engineered by Mitsu, why is it a universally accepted process in the 4g63 community. Why don't you ever hear of owners motors falling apart? That BS is insignificant in my car and the removal was just as insignifcant. I feel a tad bit more vibration on the steering wheel and if I put my hand on the valve cover, I can feel the motor vibrate a tad bit more....not much more than what my buddies GS-T mind you.
That 3lb rotating mass serves no purpose other than to balance the motor in freq. It doesn't oil anything but it does slush oil around (makes me think of when my son takes a bath and he splashes around)...there's another variable that you didn't mention. That shaft is connected to a gear that is connected to a belt...ask yourself this, do you really need it? Neglect, I can buy that. What about the people who know better and don't neglect their cars? Are you telling me that I should leave my BS in? Too late, it's been without it for almost a year now and I still haven't had to retighten anything in or around the motor.
I understand your point of view, but don't tell us that, that shaft with lobes is only designed to help. I see one pro to having it and three cons. If I wanted a silent, smooth, comfortable car....I wouldn't have bought what I have now, I most certainly would have bought a Caddy.
If your only arguement for keeping the BS is so that the motor doesn't shake itself apart, then you need a caddy and stay away from DSMs. If you did this on your car and it felt uncomfortable, something happened, you either did it wrong or you had something else going on with your motor. If you haven't done this and you are only talking from riding in a car with one removed...there's just too many variables that's going on to assess that ALL DSMs are like the one you rode in.
The engineers also didn't engineer adjustable camber plates or similar, but yet whey you lower your car, you need them (brilliant Mitsubishi Engineers!). Mitsubishi Engineered the 7 bolt to fix the issues with the 6 bolt (brilliant Mitsubishi Engineers!), yet everyone goes back to the 6 bolt. You can keep your BS, I will leave mine out and so will the thousands of DSM owners that have done it.
Oh and don't compare our cars to Neons, compare us to an SRT-4, an EVO, a Suby, but not a 2.4L N/A car built to be economical.
< Message edited by silvercoupe97 -- 11/18/2006 12:00:52 AM >
_____________________________
Thanks,
John
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 1g balance shaft - 11/18/2006 12:41:59 AM
|
|
|
racerx55
Posts: 1026
Score: 0
Joined: 11/9/2006
Status: offline
|
its not a timing belt killer? then why did i find my BS belt tangled up in the timing belt, and all the teeth ripped off the belt and bent vavles? it killed it for sure... its definately not a "hack" way of doing anything, the balance shafts are there for the yuppie candy asses who want a smooth ride, i dont, i'd prefer to get rid of all the horse **** thats not nessecary in my car, you cant compare a DSM to a neon, i own one DSM and 2 neons, the neon is a pile of **** waste of space ****box car good for nothing but destroying on a dirt oval track for fun
theres the good old 420a
Thumbnail Image
 Attachment (1)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 1g balance shaft - 11/18/2006 1:49:14 AM
|
|
|
silvercoupe97
Posts: 3420
Score: 0
Joined: 11/10/2006
Status: offline
|
RRE has been around for quite some time and have helped the DSM community and now the EVO community. They put a lot of R&D to their products. When they say something, folks in both communities listen.
Here's what I "heard" from them in regards to removing the BS...
quote:
Good:
* More HP to the wheels
* Zero chance the B-Belt will fail and kill the timing belt
* Zero chance the balance shaft bearings will fail and damage the rest of the motor
* More oil pressure to the rest of the motor
Bad:
* More vibration is felt in side the car (no more is made, just more is felt)
* Every car is different, some motors are more balanced than others. It is no worse that any other 2.0 liter car with out balance shafts
Then there's this bit of info that state the same thing that you said Manybrews and what I stated and to go with what Racer has found out.
Racer's issue is great example, not to mention that you didn't read his posts about his motor before speculating that the BS being a timing belt killer is "unfound".
Read up on this site to find out more before speaking about the BS in that "tone".
http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/answers-major.htm#removebalanceshafts
Here's another quote from 1000Q.
quote:
The balance shaft belt (known as timing belt B in dealership circles) has a much less important job than the main timing belt. It's function is to operate one of the balance shafts in the engine, a component that does nothing but smooth out the engine vibration. Balance shafts are not essential in an engine, and many engines don't have any at all.
http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/answers-maintenance.htm#whyarebeltsimportant
_____________________________
Thanks,
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 1g balance shaft - 11/18/2006 6:05:16 AM
|
|
|
racerx55
Posts: 1026
Score: 0
Joined: 11/9/2006
Status: offline
|
also now that ive got far into this engine, those godlike balance shafts you talk so well about, both of them the bearings are wpun or gone, the rear one has 1/4" of slop in all directions,- thats what trashed this motor, 1 less 1g 6 bolt now.. some great thing to keep there genious, so im just gonna get another motor and get rid of those worthless heaps of **** in it
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 1g balance shaft - 11/18/2006 10:20:57 AM
|
|
|
Manybrews
Posts: 774
Score: 0
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: United States
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: racerx55
its not a timing belt killer? then why did i find my BS belt tangled up in the timing belt, and all the teeth ripped off the belt and bent vavles? it killed it for sure... its definately not a "hack" way of doing anything, the balance shafts are there for the yuppie candy asses who want a smooth ride, i dont, i'd prefer to get rid of all the horse **** thats not nessecary in my car, you cant compare a DSM to a neon, i own one DSM and 2 neons, the neon is a pile of **** waste of space ****box car good for nothing but destroying on a dirt oval track for fun
theres the good old 420a
Thumbnail Image
"yuppie candy asses"? I guess when I spend 20-30 grand on a new car, I dont want it to vibrate like a ****ty 30 year old Plymouth. If you tell me you do, you're being silly (or trying to impress someone with being a "tough guy").
and Ive already said if it fails it fails only due to neglect, and no other reason.
the technology only has benefits, which is why EVERY car maker on the planet uses them in some of their products.
I can tell standing next to a mitsu wether its had its balance shafts removed, and to me it signifies a butchering of what was a nice product.
incidently, what some people here dont know about balance shaft eliminator kits is that they can dramatically shorten the life of the oil pump. With only the stub shaft installed to hold the driven gear, the load placed on it is completely taken up by the aluminum housing as compared to just partially. The load is coming in at an angle, and Ive seen the aluminum housing actually wear itself out. Never before that have I seen an oil pump fail (or since) on a mitsu product.
just a bit of information for people to know. Im not saying your going to have a garateed oil pump failure... But im saying its more of a possibility.
< Message edited by Manybrews -- 11/18/2006 10:31:41 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 1g balance shaft - 11/18/2006 10:28:28 AM
|
|
|
Manybrews
Posts: 774
Score: 0
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: United States
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: silvercoupe97
Who said anything about gaining any HP from removing the BS? The BS is obviously not needed as badly as you make it sound in your post. If it was and if it was a miracle shaft engineered by Mitsu, why is it a universally accepted process in the 4g63 community. Why don't you ever hear of owners motors falling apart? That BS is insignificant in my car and the removal was just as insignifcant. I feel a tad bit more vibration on the steering wheel and if I put my hand on the valve cover, I can feel the motor vibrate a tad bit more....not much more than what my buddies GS-T mind you.
measure it. its almost 5 times greater.
quote:
That 3lb rotating mass serves no purpose other than to balance the motor in freq. It doesn't oil anything but it does slush oil around (makes me think of when my son takes a bath and he splashes around)...there's another variable that you didn't mention. That shaft is connected to a gear that is connected to a belt...ask yourself this, do you really need it?
you and I obviously differ.. I choose to have reliable, smooth power. You apparently want reliable, buzzy power. Do you need them? only if you wish to be able to have a product that equals the rest of the worlds in overall quality. try driving an older GM "quad four" without the shafts, and then one with them. The difference (as on a mitsu) is astounding in overall refinement.
quote:
Neglect, I can buy that. What about the people who know better and don't neglect their cars? Are you telling me that I should leave my BS in? Too late, it's been without it for almost a year now and I still haven't had to retighten anything in or around the motor.
people who dont know better are the ones that damn the balance shafts from the beginning. Taking them out obviously wont reduce the life of the engine, but might reduce the life of the oil pump.
quote:
I understand your point of view, but don't tell us that, that shaft with lobes is only designed to help. I see one pro to having it and three cons. If I wanted a silent, smooth, comfortable car....I wouldn't have bought what I have now, I most certainly would have bought a Caddy.
there really are no "cons". no added maintence, no added requirements.. only a reduction in amplitude of vibratino.
quote:
If your only arguement for keeping the BS is so that the motor doesn't shake itself apart, then you need a caddy and stay away from DSMs. If you did this on your car and it felt uncomfortable, something happened, you either did it wrong or you had something else going on with your motor. If you haven't done this and you are only talking from riding in a car with one removed...there's just too many variables that's going on to assess that ALL DSMs are like the one you rode in.
the one? ive driven thousands of mitsus. I can feel the slightest incorrect noise, vibration, etc.
quote:
The engineers also didn't engineer adjustable camber plates or similar, but yet whey you lower your car, you need them (brilliant Mitsubishi Engineers!).
thats because the car's not designed to be modified. Its not a race car, its a product designed for the masses. Lowering is another thing that I often take issue with, because 9 times of 10 the people that have done it have dramatically decreased their cars handling and ride quality.
quote:
Oh and don't compare our cars to Neons, compare us to an SRT-4, an EVO, a Suby, but not a 2.4L N/A car built to be economical.
well, mitsu did use the 420a now... and its a buzzy engine.
< Message edited by Manybrews -- 11/18/2006 12:02:29 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 1g balance shaft - 11/18/2006 10:30:31 AM
|
|
|
Manybrews
Posts: 774
Score: 0
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: United States
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: racerx55
also now that ive got far into this engine, those godlike balance shafts you talk so well about, both of them the bearings are wpun or gone, the rear one has 1/4" of slop in all directions,- thats what trashed this motor, 1 less 1g 6 bolt now.. some great thing to keep there genious, so im just gonna get another motor and get rid of those worthless heaps of **** in it
if you maintain your car that wont happen. Got 212000 out of my eclipse before I sold it. And its still going.
built a 385 WHEEL horsepower 1st gen, and it still had the balance shafts in it. and its still running.
they dont fail any more often than any internal engine componant.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 1g balance shaft - 11/18/2006 5:12:25 PM
|
|
|
racerx55
Posts: 1026
Score: 0
Joined: 11/9/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
the technology only has benefits, which is why EVERY car maker on the planet uses them in some of their products.
I can tell standing next to a mitsu wether its had its balance shafts removed, and to me it signifies a butchering of what was a nice product.
I guess when I spend 20-30 grand on a new car, I dont want it to vibrate like a ****ty 30 year old Plymouth.
yet the 30 year old plymouths still run through years of neglect and severe abuse, but new cars with all this technology that are well maintained are lucky to live the first 6 months without something self-destructing on them
i'm not dumb enough to spend $30,000 on a car, new or not
< Message edited by racerx55 -- 11/18/2006 5:13:10 PM >
|
|
|
|
Contact Us |
Sitemap |
Link To Us |
Advertising |
Automotive Links |
Mitsubishi Links |
Archive |
About Us |
Legal |
Privacy Policy |
© Mitsubishi Forum
Mitsubishi Forum .com is not affiliated with or endorsed by Mitsubishi Motors.
|
Printable Version
